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foreign

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[Music]

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foreign

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[Music]

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I am filling in for Martin who is on the

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road and uh what can I say it is so

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great to be back I'm very excited about

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this guest because I know nothing about

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him

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um Rob zweitek uh let's see I'm just

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going to hit a couple of the highlights

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here

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um he is a UFO researcher with a

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coalition and the board of the National

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UFO historical record Center

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um he has been working with mufon since

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uh looks like 1976.

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um he also in his past is has had great

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experience in all different Sciences in

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fact he had a double major

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of earth science and physics

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um I'm just going to bring him on

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because I I can't wait I love opening

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new packages and sorry Rob you're a new

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and he's taken a while to uh come down

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the chimney here with a new package

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hello Rob Martin uh Dean sorry about

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that great two hours great to see you

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and good to be on the show tonight

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glad to have you here how are you first

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of all

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fairly well thank you very much I hope

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hope you're doing well

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I am

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um I I want to dive in and and get into

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how you got into this and and where

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you're going but first I want to kind of

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get your opinion uh there have been two

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videos that were dropped recently one

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was the um Jeremy Corbell and um George

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Knapp

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um still which is from I guess one

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second of footage which is in the total

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footage is is four seconds but the

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actual footage of the this spherical

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metallic ball is one second I don't know

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if you got a chance to look at that and

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then Dave Beatty also had some footage

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that he showed it looks like flair

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footage want to get your take on that

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yeah I haven't seen any in the last day

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or so you know so

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um

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busy with a couple things here yeah well

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I can tell you I I took a look at it

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um it's interesting I'm I'm kind of

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waiting for the some of the the the

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pundits to take a look at this

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um anytime I get new information the

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first thing I do is I go into uh and I

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don't know if you do this as well I'm

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assuming you do you go into analyst mode

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I'm not a skeptic or debunker but I do

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like to analyze and take a look and um

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you know anytime someone serves up

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something that's kind of um you know

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exciting to dive in but I want to make

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sure that you know that it it feels

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incredible

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absolutely absolutely what I do I I

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probably look through hundreds of uh of

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videos and still still shots that occur

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in the um the mufons case management

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system each year I'm always trying to

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find some good cases to speak about or

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to refer someone to and uh so yeah I see

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my in my fair share maybe more than my

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fair share of uh of videos most of which

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aren't all that great but there's some

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that are rather amazing the diamond and

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the rough so let's back up and kind of

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start where it all started what was the

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um what was the impetus what was that

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that Rosebud moment for you where you

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went oh this is something yeah the

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impetus uh

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were uh

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fairly big news items and the University

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of Colorado study was going on and

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sightings were appearing in in the local

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newspapers and and books were coming out

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and somehow in school or whatever I

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either saw a reference to a book that

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had just been published on UFOs and I

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read some of these uh sightings in the

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in the newspapers and I was just hooked

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I recall seeing believe it or not one of

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the very first books I read was Georgia

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damsky's flying saucers have landed and

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I've since learned that a lot of

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Promenade UFO researchers in the field

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had that as their first book but uh once

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I got past of that and I realized that

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the true UFO phenomenon is is just

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amazingly intriguing and I I never sort

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of left off my interest in field from

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that time until till this time today I'm

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still as intrigued as I was uh 50 plus

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years ago so was that the first exposure

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you had was uh damsky's book or was it

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something that you saw on TV what was

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your kind of um thoughts on on life

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elsewhere well yeah going really back

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far before I really was into reading UFO

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books per se I I do recall reading the

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Kecksburg incident in the in our local

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paper in Scranton Pennsylvania and that

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was 65 I think something like that yeah

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so that might have been my first

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exposure to a UFO report and I might

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have said to my folks or something what

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are UFOs what's going on here with this

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and then over the subsequent years I

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would encounter a few other cases but it

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it finally came down to one day in 1968

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where I was just walking through a field

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and I thought gee what I need to do

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right now is is read a UFO book I just

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want to read a book on this and start I

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I just felt intensely curious to want to

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just dive into the subject and that's

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what I did then in the in the summer of

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68 is when I started really focusing my

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energies more on the true UFO phenomenon

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and the UFO Problem whatever it might be

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interesting you say problem

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um yeah it's kind of a a challenge for

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those who are trying to find something

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that you can hold up as tangible

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um it's funny I'm I'm working on the

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script right now and and I'm trying to

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deal with exactly that and so there's a

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line in it which is you know anything

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that you can repeat

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in like a lab setting you can

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quantifiably say yes this is you know

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this is evidence of this but you can't

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do that and you can't repeat the

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Northern Lights you can't say oh hold on

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I will make it come up you know in two

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weeks from now it just is its own you

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know thing in a life of its own

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yeah yeah correct and I'm I'm getting a

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little tired of hearing about how and I

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know UFOs are in just the way you

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described non-repeatable but but like

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the northern lights they are repeatable

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in the sense that we know we're going to

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get hundreds of

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UFO reports each or thousands actually

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mufon gets thousands and of those

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thousands hundreds remain unexplained or

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unknowns so those are always repeating

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year after year and what repeats also is

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their behavior shapes sometimes and

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their characteristics and other subtle

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subtle events and effects that keeps

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repeating year after year but you're

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right we can't

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summon it up on a laboratory bench

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anything like that at this at this

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moment we don't know when the next

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sightings are going to occur it could be

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right over your place right now or it

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could be over who knows what any place

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in the U.S or Canada or the world

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seemingly you don't know and that's the

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other thing is that people like to say

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it only happens in America or it only

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happens out in the country and uh the

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the evidence if anyone were to take a

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look

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at some evidence uh there's a heck of a

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lot of it that shows that this has you

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know been around for a very long time in

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all different areas

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um you know if you just look at the uh

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the Brooklyn Bridge uh Linda story Alone

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um but so okay so you're interested you

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have an interest in this when do you

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start taking it kind of serious because

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first you went into the academic

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academic path and you're doing a double

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major here which is uh you know

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accepting I just you just dropped off

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there a little bit sure so you go off to

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college and you're still holding this

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and your double major kind of reflects

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that you know the subject matters that

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you're studying Earth studies and and uh

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Astro um or physics

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um so how does that incorporate what do

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you when you're going to to college

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there how are you feeling like you're

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going to incorporate this into your your

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interest

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I well in the field I can't say as I had

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any such a highfaluding thoughts like

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that I really didn't know how I would

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incorporate my interest into UFOs into

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any kind of of an activity at that time

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and point

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yeah you know when you when you're going

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to college at least my experience was

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that geez I got to get through these

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classes and I was reading stuff on the

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UFOs when I could but okay I have to get

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through the classes then after I get

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through college I have to find it at

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work I have to find something to do and

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UFOs didn't pay money it wasn't

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something that you could choose as a as

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a vocation uh

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to to immediately start off and get a

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full-time job in ufology I knew that

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wasn't going to happen so after I

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graduated my interest in UFOs for a

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number of years thereafter I still

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remained that of a

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looking through uh

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magazines and you know doing a lot of

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reading and little by little I started

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to to uh so creeping a little bit closer

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to the field I met Stan Friedman he

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spoke at our College one one uh day in

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October in in the in the fall I guess it

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was and I got some of my professors kind

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of interested in that and they went to

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see Stan Friedman and they were very

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impressed and I crept into the field and

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joined mufon in the 70s but I I have to

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admit it wasn't until I was was really

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rather established in my job at the at

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the patent office the United States

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patent office here in Virginia that I

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made the step to really reach out to a

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group and that was the fun for UFO

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research which was headquartered in the

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Washington DC area and I knew all the

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principles by name and in in that group

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but I had never met any of them so I

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knew Richard Hall and and I'd heard of

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Don Berliner and Bruce Maccabee and all

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those kind of people but that's the

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group I I fill in with and um so in any

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oh you're Frozen they had and looking at

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cases and and I still adhere to a lot of

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what they said and looked at the subject

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the way they looked at it

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so um was this before or after NASA when

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you worked with NASA uh yeah NASA was

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1974 so my my actual uh

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integration into the fund for UFO

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research would have been 1986.

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okay so so you're doing you're working

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the patent office and that's

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um before your work at Nasa correct uh

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that was after yeah after okay so then

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let's back up and and hit the uh NASA

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note so how did NASA come about working

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there and and what was um

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what was what were you doing that was

273
00:11:59,290 --> 00:11:56,220
mostly a summer job unfortunately and it

274
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,300
lasted for a number of months but uh

275
00:12:03,290 --> 00:12:01,680
curiously enough I I don't know how

276
00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:03,300
these things happen but I but I ended up

277
00:12:08,889 --> 00:12:06,600
on on a on a project at NASA

278
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:08,899
headquarters called the csap project

279
00:12:14,690 --> 00:12:12,240
headed by a guy named McCandless and so

280
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:14,700
I was involved with that and helping

281
00:12:18,590 --> 00:12:16,560
write up technical documents and edit

282
00:12:21,949 --> 00:12:18,600
things and doing whatever they said to

283
00:12:24,350 --> 00:12:21,959
do and and I wish that had lasted and I

284
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:24,360
could have gotten a faster but it just

285
00:12:28,910 --> 00:12:26,399
didn't work out and maybe I wasn't

286
00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:28,920
aggressive enough but anyhow I ended up

287
00:12:33,769 --> 00:12:31,560
at the patent office uh some a few years

288
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:33,779
I think it was three years after my NASA

289
00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:36,959
uh stint I was working at the patent

290
00:12:40,670 --> 00:12:39,060
office I would have gotten kicked out of

291
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:40,680
uh NASA I wouldn't have lasted as long

292
00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:43,440
as you because I'm I'm that UFO geek who

293
00:12:47,329 --> 00:12:45,480
would be grilling them everyone I'd go

294
00:12:49,610 --> 00:12:47,339
to the janitor you see anything kind of

295
00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:49,620
out of the ordinary anything going on

296
00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:51,540
here well that's a good thing that's

297
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:55,620
that's to be applauded and one time when

298
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:57,360
I was at Nasa it was in the summertime

299
00:13:01,009 --> 00:12:59,040
and I was walking out of the building

300
00:13:02,990 --> 00:13:01,019
and I stopped into the other they made a

301
00:13:04,670 --> 00:13:03,000
little Bookshop at that time in the

302
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:04,680
headquarters and a woman was working

303
00:13:07,310 --> 00:13:06,000
behind the desk

304
00:13:09,470 --> 00:13:07,320
and

305
00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:09,480
she was on the phone I I had a question

306
00:13:12,650 --> 00:13:10,980
or something like that for her I can't

307
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:12,660
recall right now what it was but she

308
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,760
hung up at the phone and said Gee I just

309
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:16,560
got a UFO report

310
00:13:20,449 --> 00:13:18,320
oh no way

311
00:13:23,629 --> 00:13:20,459
what happened what was it what do they

312
00:13:26,449 --> 00:13:23,639
say and and she said a few things and

313
00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:26,459
this was now 40 some years ago and but

314
00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:28,920
she said I just we we don't have

315
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:31,980
anywhere to to transfer those things and

316
00:13:35,870 --> 00:13:34,320
she just didn't hang up on the guy but

317
00:13:37,790 --> 00:13:35,880
she was polite and courteous to him and

318
00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:37,800
ultimately hung up and and that's the

319
00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:39,600
way UFO reports were treated when they

320
00:13:45,050 --> 00:13:41,700
came into at least the gift shop there

321
00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:45,060
yeah that's a very good point wow we've

322
00:13:50,889 --> 00:13:46,980
come up kind of a long way from the gift

323
00:13:53,930 --> 00:13:50,899
shop at Nasa to uh the UAP task force

324
00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:53,940
some may argue the other way but yes in

325
00:13:57,949 --> 00:13:55,260
some ways we haven't in some ways we

326
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:57,959
haven't yeah exactly

327
00:14:02,690 --> 00:14:00,959
um so you're working at Nasa now how do

328
00:14:06,110 --> 00:14:02,700
we go from NASA to the patent office

329
00:14:09,230 --> 00:14:06,120
which uh as you know the patent offices

330
00:14:12,490 --> 00:14:09,240
is ripe with conspiracy theories

331
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:12,500
um and so did you go into that with any

332
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:15,600
idea or any uh exploration need to

333
00:14:19,069 --> 00:14:17,700
explore desire to or was it just hey

334
00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:19,079
I've got a connection at that office

335
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:22,620
yeah I it was the kind of thing where

336
00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:24,480
my folks said you know you're gonna have

337
00:14:29,329 --> 00:14:27,720
to get a job and I I had applied for

338
00:14:31,190 --> 00:14:29,339
government positions and and then

339
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,200
suddenly I was offered one even even

340
00:14:35,870 --> 00:14:33,600
without an interview so Beggars can't be

341
00:14:37,730 --> 00:14:35,880
choosers let's put it that way so I

342
00:14:39,889 --> 00:14:37,740
packed up my bags and moved from uh

343
00:14:41,930 --> 00:14:39,899
northeast Pennsylvania down to Virginia

344
00:14:44,030 --> 00:14:41,940
and began working at the patent office

345
00:14:46,670 --> 00:14:44,040
and whatever was going to happen to me

346
00:14:47,930 --> 00:14:46,680
was going to happen and I ended up in a

347
00:14:50,210 --> 00:14:47,940
lot of different working in a lot of

348
00:14:52,310 --> 00:14:50,220
different technical areas in in the

349
00:14:53,689 --> 00:14:52,320
patent office which were some some of

350
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:53,699
which were quite interesting and

351
00:15:04,009 --> 00:15:02,449
you know that's that would have been the

352
00:15:06,170 --> 00:15:04,019
place I wanted to be in right from the

353
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,180
beginning so it sort of worked out okay

354
00:15:10,610 --> 00:15:09,120
what excited you about it what got your

355
00:15:13,210 --> 00:15:10,620
interest in that was Aviation you know

356
00:15:17,449 --> 00:15:13,220
you'd be working on satellite stuff uh

357
00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:17,459
launch uh launch technology sometime uh

358
00:15:23,410 --> 00:15:21,420
Aviation Technology uh ailerons if all

359
00:15:25,370 --> 00:15:23,420
parts of airplanes triangular

360
00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:25,380
anti-gravitational technology no you

361
00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:26,760
know just something like that I would

362
00:15:33,230 --> 00:15:30,360
get those kind of applications but uh

363
00:15:34,730 --> 00:15:33,240
every patent has to be and I don't want

364
00:15:37,610 --> 00:15:34,740
to get into a big description here of

365
00:15:39,889 --> 00:15:37,620
how how complicated the patent patent

366
00:15:42,050 --> 00:15:39,899
application process is but basically

367
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,060
patent applications have to describe

368
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,639
whatever the invention is insufficient

369
00:15:49,129 --> 00:15:46,560
detail that that a person who was

370
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:49,139
skilled in the area to which The

371
00:15:52,850 --> 00:15:51,120
Invention purchase could make or use the

372
00:15:55,009 --> 00:15:52,860
invention just by reading what the

373
00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:55,019
inventor had to say about it so if you

374
00:16:00,350 --> 00:15:57,180
invent an improvement to a landing gear

375
00:16:02,449 --> 00:16:00,360
to an engineer an aeronautical engineer

376
00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:02,459
it ought to be pretty clear to that

377
00:16:06,410 --> 00:16:04,620
person oh yeah okay I see exactly how

378
00:16:08,329 --> 00:16:06,420
this person's building this this uh

379
00:16:10,610 --> 00:16:08,339
landing gear based on his specification

380
00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:10,620
I see exactly what he claims to say is

381
00:16:15,290 --> 00:16:13,740
his invention and I understand it but if

382
00:16:22,329 --> 00:16:15,300
someone submits an application that

383
00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:26,090
at least normal physics today and we

384
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:27,660
just don't have anti-gravity devices

385
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:30,000
obviously we plug into our our airplanes

386
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:31,920
to make them fly it's

387
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:34,800
you just you just can't even really work

388
00:16:37,550 --> 00:16:36,240
on the application you give them a

389
00:16:40,069 --> 00:16:37,560
certain type of a technical rejection

390
00:16:42,350 --> 00:16:40,079
that says it doesn't adhere to science

391
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:42,360
as we understand it and that's that

392
00:16:46,189 --> 00:16:44,639
that's how you deal with them right and

393
00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:46,199
that's how I dealt with them

394
00:16:51,650 --> 00:16:49,380
and I even okay was in the classified

395
00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:51,660
area and I can tell you that the same

396
00:16:56,689 --> 00:16:54,060
principles applied there even classified

397
00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:56,699
projects still have to adhere to physics

398
00:17:00,769 --> 00:16:58,680
and Engineering as it's currently

399
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,779
understood in the world today you can't

400
00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:02,639
just say oh I put an anti-gravity device

401
00:17:05,809 --> 00:17:04,260
into the bottom of this satellite and

402
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:05,819
then it just can take off by itself from

403
00:17:11,870 --> 00:17:08,400
the surface of the Earth sorry

404
00:17:14,090 --> 00:17:11,880
that's not going to fly patent-wise so

405
00:17:15,710 --> 00:17:14,100
if I were to like donate to your patreon

406
00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:15,720
account you could tell me what some of

407
00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:17,579
this classified information was in some

408
00:17:20,890 --> 00:17:19,500
of these patents

409
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:20,900
well

410
00:17:32,990 --> 00:17:30,770
to say I I you know I wish I had all

411
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:33,000
okay let me put it this way here's an

412
00:17:38,029 --> 00:17:34,200
interesting way of putting it and this

413
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:38,039
is a 100 true I did get across on a

414
00:17:41,930 --> 00:17:39,200
number of times

415
00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:41,940
probably 10 or fewer times in in the

416
00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:44,280
course of my uh patents examining our

417
00:17:49,789 --> 00:17:47,160
career disc shaped aircraft or

418
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:49,799
saucer-shaped aircraft and none of them

419
00:17:55,730 --> 00:17:53,520
they were all unclassified and

420
00:17:58,130 --> 00:17:55,740
I looked at those things and and they

421
00:17:59,870 --> 00:17:58,140
people would put uh they'd have a

422
00:18:02,990 --> 00:17:59,880
saucer-shaped craft and they'd put some

423
00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:03,000
kind of a a lifting engine in it a a

424
00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:05,400
rotating fan might be a good thing and

425
00:18:08,570 --> 00:18:06,900
they might have a series of lows around

426
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:08,580
the circumference of the saucer then

427
00:18:12,169 --> 00:18:10,320
they'd have something that gave a

428
00:18:14,270 --> 00:18:12,179
horizontal impetus to the thing so once

429
00:18:16,610 --> 00:18:14,280
the fans lifted it off the ground it had

430
00:18:19,970 --> 00:18:16,620
a something at right angles through the

431
00:18:21,289 --> 00:18:19,980
uh to the surface of lyrics to push this

432
00:18:23,150 --> 00:18:21,299
long so they could they could fly where

433
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:23,160
they wanted to go but each and every one

434
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:25,760
of them I worked at adhered to

435
00:18:30,529 --> 00:18:28,200
conventional aeronautical and

436
00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:30,539
engineering technology they might have

437
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:32,580
been improvements on it and I ended up

438
00:18:36,289 --> 00:18:34,559
giving these people patents but there

439
00:18:37,669 --> 00:18:36,299
wasn't anything mysterious about how

440
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,679
these things worked

441
00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:39,840
so they're all public documents they're

442
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:41,400
all public documents you can read read

443
00:18:51,049 --> 00:18:42,660
them

444
00:18:52,370 --> 00:18:51,059
um so um I want to dive into

445
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:52,380
um oh hold on we've got a question here

446
00:18:57,230 --> 00:18:53,760
from Steve long

447
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:57,240
uh Robert can you elaborate on

448
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:01,280
on how the par patterns for the past and

449
00:19:06,529 --> 00:19:04,080
patterns were about uh were able to be

450
00:19:08,330 --> 00:19:06,539
approved how they were without such uh

451
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:08,340
clear standards that's a good question I

452
00:19:12,049 --> 00:19:09,600
was trying to figure out the name of

453
00:19:17,630 --> 00:19:14,330
yeah I'm that that's a really good

454
00:19:19,490 --> 00:19:17,640
question and the The Examiner of the of

455
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:19,500
of the pious application the one that

456
00:19:23,690 --> 00:19:21,120
this individual is probably reporting to

457
00:19:25,310 --> 00:19:23,700
if I had like 15 seconds or 20 seconds I

458
00:19:26,990 --> 00:19:25,320
could I could pull that from the papers

459
00:19:28,610 --> 00:19:27,000
behind me and show it to you but but

460
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:28,620
anyhow

461
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:32,880
I I I don't think that well I I hate to

462
00:19:37,490 --> 00:19:34,799
bad to bad mother say anything really

463
00:19:39,409 --> 00:19:37,500
poor about how how something what the

464
00:19:42,770 --> 00:19:39,419
patent office issues but I'm not 100

465
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:42,780
sure that that Pious device which

466
00:19:46,610 --> 00:19:44,400
describes a device that's capable of

467
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:46,620
moving at tremendous speeds in the water

468
00:19:51,890 --> 00:19:49,440
or in the air or in in space where

469
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:51,900
there's nowhere at speeds far beyond

470
00:19:57,049 --> 00:19:54,000
what we have achieved as as human beings

471
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:57,059
on this planet and it's it's a very

472
00:20:02,330 --> 00:19:59,840
short patent and it's got

473
00:20:04,250 --> 00:20:02,340
uh at the end of every patent they have

474
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,260
what they call the claims and the claims

475
00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:06,240
describe they claim what the inventor

476
00:20:11,630 --> 00:20:08,940
believes to be his or her invention the

477
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:11,640
claims are very very short but like I

478
00:20:18,890 --> 00:20:14,640
said earlier the application including

479
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,770
failed it if you're an engineer you

480
00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:23,760
could make and design and use this

481
00:20:28,669 --> 00:20:26,160
invention and I don't see anybody flying

482
00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:28,679
around on the pious device and I don't

483
00:20:32,529 --> 00:20:30,600
think it would I just don't think we

484
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:32,539
have the technology to be able to

485
00:20:37,850 --> 00:20:35,280
replicate that device and to be honest

486
00:20:40,029 --> 00:20:37,860
with you to be frank I'm a little

487
00:20:43,610 --> 00:20:40,039
unclear how that got a patent but it did

488
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:43,620
and it was sponsored by the Navy and

489
00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:46,320
Pious worked for the Navy and

490
00:20:50,150 --> 00:20:48,299
if the Navy had thought this invention

491
00:20:53,390 --> 00:20:50,160
could be reduced to practice

492
00:20:56,090 --> 00:20:53,400
I guarantee you this would have had a

493
00:20:58,370 --> 00:20:56,100
secrecy order imposed on it it would

494
00:21:00,529 --> 00:20:58,380
never have been let out publicly because

495
00:21:02,930 --> 00:21:00,539
enemies of the United States enemies of

496
00:21:05,049 --> 00:21:02,940
the Free World whatever could make this

497
00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:05,059
thing and uh and

498
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:08,820
dominate the skies but they aren't that

499
00:21:12,830 --> 00:21:10,260
could be a whole show for those of you

500
00:21:15,710 --> 00:21:12,840
who who don't know about this it was a

501
00:21:17,630 --> 00:21:15,720
um a device or vehicle or the the

502
00:21:20,330 --> 00:21:17,640
promise thereof

503
00:21:22,850 --> 00:21:20,340
um that this thing would be able to fly

504
00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:22,860
with a new technology that so far we

505
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:24,780
don't really have and I always thought

506
00:21:27,650 --> 00:21:26,039
well if the government was going to do

507
00:21:30,649 --> 00:21:27,660
this and they absolutely had to have it

508
00:21:32,450 --> 00:21:30,659
patent in order to control it

509
00:21:33,770 --> 00:21:32,460
um that you would do it in bits and

510
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:33,780
pieces and then when you put it all

511
00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:36,240
together you would then have all those

512
00:21:39,470 --> 00:21:37,860
pieces covered and no one could do that

513
00:21:41,390 --> 00:21:39,480
even though they wouldn't you know have

514
00:21:44,029 --> 00:21:41,400
the whole structure of it it could just

515
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:44,039
be like assembled with all these various

516
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:52,070
interview today he would say I presented

517
00:21:56,930 --> 00:21:54,600
a complete working device that's my

518
00:21:58,430 --> 00:21:56,940
device and I I set it forth in

519
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,440
engineering language and then the

520
00:22:03,289 --> 00:22:00,480
technical terminology that's required

521
00:22:05,570 --> 00:22:03,299
and um that's what it is and that's how

522
00:22:07,490 --> 00:22:05,580
it works but I assure you if you read

523
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,500
the thing it's not all that clear how it

524
00:22:11,149 --> 00:22:09,840
works and I don't want to keep going on

525
00:22:13,070 --> 00:22:11,159
and take up the rest of your hour on

526
00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:13,080
this but I have looked into the what

527
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:14,940
papers publicly are available on this

528
00:22:20,510 --> 00:22:16,799
Pious patent the whole file is available

529
00:22:22,610 --> 00:22:20,520
for public consumption on on the

530
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:22,620
internet okay through the patent office

531
00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:24,960
and you can see how how this this

532
00:22:28,370 --> 00:22:26,580
application window its way through the

533
00:22:31,730 --> 00:22:28,380
patent office and I have my own opinions

534
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:31,740
on and what happened to cause this to

535
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:32,880
become a patent but there's nothing

536
00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:34,799
mysterious about it it's just the way

537
00:22:39,950 --> 00:22:37,620
the patent system works and the fella

538
00:22:42,770 --> 00:22:39,960
got a patent and I know for a fact the

539
00:22:44,450 --> 00:22:42,780
examiner couldn't find this invention in

540
00:22:46,610 --> 00:22:44,460
all the prior patents he looked through

541
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,620
the wall I know the examiner of this

542
00:22:51,470 --> 00:22:48,480
patentee I helped train him when he came

543
00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:51,480
into the patent office and uh oh wow a

544
00:22:55,730 --> 00:22:53,580
guy named Phil I think his name is Phil

545
00:22:58,610 --> 00:22:55,740
bonzell and

546
00:23:01,070 --> 00:22:58,620
and he's a very very good examiner he's

547
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:01,080
very good engineer and scientist and he

548
00:23:05,870 --> 00:23:04,320
couldn't find it and long story short if

549
00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:05,880
I can't find it in the patent literature

550
00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:13,070
basically that's what happened oh you

551
00:23:17,149 --> 00:23:14,580
froze it but I think basically what

552
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:17,159
you're saying is if I can't find it

553
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:19,440
um in in our records then it's not going

554
00:23:23,330 --> 00:23:22,080
to fly by you that's unintended that's

555
00:23:24,409 --> 00:23:23,340
something it's understandable you know I

556
00:23:26,210 --> 00:23:24,419
mean they write it properly and

557
00:23:29,210 --> 00:23:26,220
everything like that but yeah then then

558
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:29,220
we let it go if it's trivial or if it's

559
00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:31,679
complicated and very important they get

560
00:23:37,070 --> 00:23:34,500
a pound okay so

561
00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:37,080
um now you're working within that and

562
00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:40,500
then on the side you're you're getting

563
00:23:45,409 --> 00:23:43,020
dialed in with uh mufon

564
00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:45,419
correct uh well actually for the fun for

565
00:23:50,270 --> 00:23:47,700
UFO research first that went on for

566
00:23:52,370 --> 00:23:50,280
about 15 years before I really

567
00:23:55,070 --> 00:23:52,380
or maybe even 18 years before I really

568
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,080
got on the muffons board but the fund

569
00:23:58,669 --> 00:23:57,360
for UFO research

570
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:58,679
I mentioned it's based here in

571
00:24:01,850 --> 00:23:59,760
Washington

572
00:24:03,950 --> 00:24:01,860
uh we interacted with all the other

573
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:03,960
groups so we would be at meetings with

574
00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:07,919
Walt Andrus and John schussler and we we

575
00:24:11,690 --> 00:24:09,320
would uh

576
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,700
encounter other in independent

577
00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:14,159
researchers and and have chances to meet

578
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:16,980
with them and so we were pretty well

579
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:19,440
connected as an organization

580
00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:21,720
and we would

581
00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:23,580
that the fund was set up to be a

582
00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:26,100
non-membership organization and it and

583
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:30,890
reduce that money and funnel it by back

584
00:24:35,270 --> 00:24:33,360
into scientific research and I swear

585
00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:35,280
that we probably raised and and gave

586
00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:37,260
back into the field well over a million

587
00:24:42,830 --> 00:24:39,900
dollars raised from donations and people

588
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:42,840
buying our Publications that's that sort

589
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:48,000
of thing uh so wow yeah it was it was

590
00:24:52,669 --> 00:24:49,679
fascinating I must say they had a good

591
00:24:54,110 --> 00:24:52,679
idea to call and and and Bruce Maccabee

592
00:24:56,570 --> 00:24:54,120
when they and others when they set up

593
00:24:58,490 --> 00:24:56,580
the uh when the set up the fund it's

594
00:25:00,649 --> 00:24:58,500
interesting because people have that

595
00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:00,659
idea that oh you can make money

596
00:25:05,149 --> 00:25:03,780
in UFOs and alien research and it's just

597
00:25:07,610 --> 00:25:05,159
like any other research and it's like

598
00:25:10,970 --> 00:25:07,620
well yes in a way if you're doing

599
00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:10,980
research and you need to show that I'm

600
00:25:14,690 --> 00:25:12,120
going to go out and I'm going to study

601
00:25:18,529 --> 00:25:14,700
this certain type of say Wildlife you

602
00:25:21,049 --> 00:25:18,539
can get grants Etc but for UFOs it's you

603
00:25:23,450 --> 00:25:21,059
know it's very difficult it's just it's

604
00:25:26,990 --> 00:25:23,460
not a job that you can get it's a job

605
00:25:29,149 --> 00:25:27,000
that you have to get funded and so

606
00:25:31,549 --> 00:25:29,159
you know unless you're writing books you

607
00:25:33,470 --> 00:25:31,559
can maybe you know do well but most of

608
00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:33,480
the people who are writing books that's

609
00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:34,740
that's not their main you know

610
00:25:38,090 --> 00:25:36,419
sustenance it's it's other things in

611
00:25:40,490 --> 00:25:38,100
conjunction with

612
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:40,500
it's passion that drives it yeah yeah

613
00:25:45,289 --> 00:25:43,260
you're 100 right Dean there have been

614
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:45,299
some people who I mean for a little

615
00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:47,279
while the fund for UFO research paid a

616
00:25:52,669 --> 00:25:50,520
researcher a full-time salary because we

617
00:25:54,529 --> 00:25:52,679
got a grant a large Grant

618
00:25:56,210 --> 00:25:54,539
a couple hundred grand and we were able

619
00:25:59,810 --> 00:25:56,220
to pay this fellow back around the turn

620
00:26:04,010 --> 00:26:01,850
oh you froze up there with abductees

621
00:26:06,289 --> 00:26:04,020
sorry I'm just going to back you up you

622
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:06,299
froze up say again Rob yeah uh sorry

623
00:26:10,970 --> 00:26:08,880
about that no worries uh yeah yeah we

624
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:10,980
got a grant from a a large benefactor

625
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:13,200
around the turn of the century and

626
00:26:15,769 --> 00:26:14,880
basically we use we got the grant

627
00:26:17,390 --> 00:26:15,779
because we were going to build an

628
00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:17,400
instrument package and we ended up

629
00:26:21,649 --> 00:26:19,320
Building 13 or 14 Instagram packages

630
00:26:23,870 --> 00:26:21,659
that were then placed in

631
00:26:25,970 --> 00:26:23,880
the putative bedrooms and homes of

632
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:25,980
abductees with the hope that they might

633
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:27,360
capture something during an abduction

634
00:26:31,850 --> 00:26:28,320
account

635
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,860
and uh so we had enough money to pay to

636
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:34,080
pay someone to constantly monitor these

637
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:36,240
boxes each and every day

638
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:38,159
but this is funds that you had to go out

639
00:26:41,930 --> 00:26:39,840
and raise it wasn't something that

640
00:26:44,029 --> 00:26:41,940
automatically I mean you had a donor who

641
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:44,039
came in absolutely yeah you're hard to

642
00:26:48,350 --> 00:26:46,320
come by right from very hard to come by

643
00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:48,360
we never gotten any government grants of

644
00:26:53,570 --> 00:26:51,240
course and ufology still doesn't really

645
00:26:55,789 --> 00:26:53,580
get a civilian ufology doesn't get any

646
00:26:58,010 --> 00:26:55,799
government grants it would be nice if

647
00:27:01,970 --> 00:26:58,020
the National Science Foundation were

648
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:01,980
just to to give several millions of

649
00:27:05,210 --> 00:27:04,080
dollars to UFO research but so far it

650
00:27:09,769 --> 00:27:05,220
hasn't happened

651
00:27:12,110 --> 00:27:09,779
so um so you're doing this this research

652
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:12,120
where you have different sensors I'm

653
00:27:16,430 --> 00:27:14,400
guessing in people's abductees or

654
00:27:18,409 --> 00:27:16,440
experiences as we call them now

655
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:18,419
um they're home what did that generate

656
00:27:23,690 --> 00:27:21,360
anything was it promising well it was

657
00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:23,700
promising and it has it has a sad ending

658
00:27:30,830 --> 00:27:26,220
and we've we've all heard that like way

659
00:27:36,169 --> 00:27:33,470
we we got this funding to put the boxes

660
00:27:38,029 --> 00:27:36,179
out there and each box was in a house

661
00:27:40,010 --> 00:27:38,039
for anywhere from three to six months

662
00:27:42,350 --> 00:27:40,020
and it was an elaborate scheme we had

663
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:42,360
for how the person was supposed to log

664
00:27:46,250 --> 00:27:44,159
in every day they had to write a journal

665
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,260
and talk about their memories of the

666
00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:48,480
night before it might just be I had no

667
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:50,520
memories or if they had what they

668
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:52,080
thought was an abduction experience we

669
00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:54,960
asked them to write it down uh we tried

670
00:27:58,090 --> 00:27:56,700
to keep things in the blind from from

671
00:28:00,289 --> 00:27:58,100
the full-time

672
00:28:01,549 --> 00:28:00,299
fellow who was working full time on the

673
00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:01,559
project so he wouldn't really know who

674
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:04,020
the people were and uh

675
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,440
and we we got all this data and then it

676
00:28:12,590 --> 00:28:09,360
we the funding didn't come through to

677
00:28:15,370 --> 00:28:12,600
have it the very voluminous digital

678
00:28:18,370 --> 00:28:15,380
files of this stuff uh

679
00:28:21,409 --> 00:28:18,380
analyzed to see whether or not

680
00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:21,419
experiences occurred on the nights when

681
00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:23,460
people might have said they thought they

682
00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:24,840
remembered being abducted in their

683
00:28:29,690 --> 00:28:27,480
journal and to this very day that's

684
00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:29,700
that's still uh that we're still trying

685
00:28:33,649 --> 00:28:32,100
to come up with and analyze this data

686
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:33,659
and little by little it is getting

687
00:28:38,510 --> 00:28:36,480
analyzed and I I don't know if there's

688
00:28:42,049 --> 00:28:38,520
any black and white signatures so far

689
00:28:44,390 --> 00:28:42,059
that have been found my guess is no but

690
00:28:46,430 --> 00:28:44,400
um there were some interesting there

691
00:28:50,990 --> 00:28:46,440
were some interesting correlations

692
00:28:54,289 --> 00:28:51,000
yeah I am I went to a um uh zero support

693
00:28:56,029 --> 00:28:54,299
group meeting and there was a um a major

694
00:28:59,149 --> 00:28:56,039
in the army

695
00:29:02,390 --> 00:28:59,159
um who asked me if I could come and

696
00:29:03,710 --> 00:29:02,400
plant cameras he figured I'm a filmmaker

697
00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:03,720
um I could get in there and he says

698
00:29:08,269 --> 00:29:06,960
don't tell me yes or no you know with

699
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,279
regards to when you're going to do this

700
00:29:11,890 --> 00:29:10,320
because if I know I'm pretty sure

701
00:29:16,370 --> 00:29:11,900
they're gonna know

702
00:29:18,889 --> 00:29:16,380
and ultimately it it seemed like

703
00:29:21,230 --> 00:29:18,899
um it was you know when you do something

704
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:21,240
like this is is you know interesting it

705
00:29:26,269 --> 00:29:24,000
is you have to kind of tread lightly you

706
00:29:29,090 --> 00:29:26,279
know you don't a wanna be doing a Fool's

707
00:29:31,789 --> 00:29:29,100
errand because um I think whatever it is

708
00:29:34,430 --> 00:29:31,799
that that is running things knows what's

709
00:29:37,310 --> 00:29:34,440
going on much better than we do

710
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:37,320
um but you know when I think about the

711
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,640
way that most of the footage has been

712
00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:40,799
captured it's been almost accidental to

713
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:43,080
a degree like I keep waiting for um

714
00:29:48,049 --> 00:29:45,600
Amazon's the ring you know those cameras

715
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:48,059
when they drop off the boxes and stuff

716
00:29:52,010 --> 00:29:50,399
that you can see that that they're going

717
00:29:53,210 --> 00:29:52,020
to capture something but they don't seem

718
00:29:55,370 --> 00:29:53,220
to come through the front door that's

719
00:29:57,070 --> 00:29:55,380
the only problem they may come through

720
00:29:59,870 --> 00:29:57,080
the front wall but you're 100

721
00:30:02,210 --> 00:29:59,880
front door or front window for that

722
00:30:03,889 --> 00:30:02,220
matter so um yeah or the front of the

723
00:30:05,210 --> 00:30:03,899
front window right or the ceiling

724
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,220
sometimes so yeah there you go yeah

725
00:30:09,529 --> 00:30:07,440
interesting so

726
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:09,539
um you you're you're doing that

727
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:12,240
experiment working with that group and

728
00:30:16,970 --> 00:30:14,940
then talking about how mufon was mufon

729
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:16,980
kind of like a grad graduate program how

730
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:19,440
is it looked upon at that time uh well

731
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:21,840
Newfoundland was looked upon as as equal

732
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:23,760
it would be like being traded from or

733
00:30:27,710 --> 00:30:25,440
going from

734
00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:27,720
you know the Toronto Blue Jacket

735
00:30:31,909 --> 00:30:29,940
or something like that in baseball you

736
00:30:34,010 --> 00:30:31,919
know maybe they yeah

737
00:30:36,590 --> 00:30:34,020
the teams are basically at the the major

738
00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:36,600
league level and that's how mufon always

739
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:38,940
was John Schuster asked me to be on the

740
00:30:44,690 --> 00:30:42,960
board in around 2004 2005 and the fund

741
00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:44,700
was starting to wind down because some

742
00:30:48,169 --> 00:30:46,020
several of the principles were getting

743
00:30:50,930 --> 00:30:48,179
fairly old and weren't as active as

744
00:30:53,930 --> 00:30:50,940
before and the internet put a whole new

745
00:30:57,470 --> 00:30:53,940
spin on things it was uh not not as easy

746
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:57,480
to uh to to make Publications and sell

747
00:31:00,230 --> 00:30:59,039
them people wanted to read stuff online

748
00:31:02,450 --> 00:31:00,240
as they

749
00:31:04,669 --> 00:31:02,460
still do and they found a lot of ways to

750
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:04,679
satisfy their UFO urge they didn't have

751
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:07,200
to keep buying our Publications now when

752
00:31:11,289 --> 00:31:09,120
we had when the fund had a had a

753
00:31:13,310 --> 00:31:11,299
scientific work that was done one of the

754
00:31:16,669 --> 00:31:13,320
requisites the prerequisites it's

755
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,679
actually was that the the researcher had

756
00:31:21,169 --> 00:31:18,720
to publish his results or her results in

757
00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:21,179
a paper or a monograph or however a

758
00:31:25,549 --> 00:31:23,460
large however long it it took to to set

759
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:25,559
forth the results in in a publication

760
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:28,080
that we could sell so we had that's how

761
00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:29,760
we would get these Publications more or

762
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:31,080
less and they would all result from work

763
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:34,980
that we had uh undertaken but that's

764
00:31:38,149 --> 00:31:36,480
sort of dried up around the turn of the

765
00:31:40,850 --> 00:31:38,159
century and John Schuster asked me to be

766
00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:40,860
on the board of mufon and Walt Andrus

767
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:44,220
had left a few years earlier and so so I

768
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:46,260
said yes and I've been on the on the

769
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:48,419
board since since that time through

770
00:31:51,769 --> 00:31:50,640
several International directors

771
00:31:54,889 --> 00:31:51,779
so

772
00:31:57,769 --> 00:31:54,899
um I'm kind of and you know I know that

773
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:57,779
that anything can be

774
00:32:01,970 --> 00:31:59,279
um a challenge when you're working in

775
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,980
any type of organization

776
00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:03,840
um you know whether it's Google right

777
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:06,240
now or a whole bunch of people got let

778
00:32:11,450 --> 00:32:09,360
go are it's it's mufon

779
00:32:14,029 --> 00:32:11,460
um what were some of the challenges uh

780
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:14,039
you're still with mufon

781
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,980
yeah it's it's a different I made the

782
00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:18,720
analogy before between two beginning

783
00:32:23,450 --> 00:32:20,700
going from one baseball team to another

784
00:32:25,730 --> 00:32:23,460
but in this case it's the Newfound does

785
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,740
not operate in the same way as as the

786
00:32:30,529 --> 00:32:28,080
fund did you find as we all know is a

787
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,539
membership organization so it always has

788
00:32:35,450 --> 00:32:32,399
challenges of

789
00:32:37,730 --> 00:32:35,460
coming up with money of course uh from

790
00:32:40,430 --> 00:32:37,740
subscriptions in this case to to the

791
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:40,440
mufon journal and from donations and

792
00:32:45,470 --> 00:32:43,500
from the sale of products but we we're

793
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:45,480
always faced with

794
00:32:50,510 --> 00:32:48,480
getting investigators and keeping them

795
00:32:52,909 --> 00:32:50,520
on board and training them and having

796
00:32:55,850 --> 00:32:52,919
them look into cases where you're always

797
00:32:58,730 --> 00:32:55,860
engaged with trying to in

798
00:33:02,090 --> 00:32:58,740
just engage and collect as many UFO

799
00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:02,100
reports and events as we can

800
00:33:06,049 --> 00:33:03,240
and

801
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:06,059
so we we've succeeded there we get four

802
00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:08,340
or five thousand a year easily and

803
00:33:11,630 --> 00:33:09,840
they're all investigated by a large

804
00:33:13,730 --> 00:33:11,640
group of of investigators throughout

805
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:13,740
Canada throughout the Us and other

806
00:33:18,409 --> 00:33:16,799
countries and so it's all yeah it's it's

807
00:33:19,730 --> 00:33:18,419
there's a lot of challenges posed there

808
00:33:21,889 --> 00:33:19,740
to the people who actually run the

809
00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:21,899
organization on a day-to-day basis

810
00:33:27,710 --> 00:33:24,840
so when you're doing this um what field

811
00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:27,720
in particular are you studying and is it

812
00:33:32,509 --> 00:33:29,940
like it's it's kind of like oh Rob we go

813
00:33:35,149 --> 00:33:32,519
to for technology doing certain things

814
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:35,159
or is it um areas that you start out in

815
00:33:39,529 --> 00:33:38,220
one and then you kind of progress where

816
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:39,539
where's your sweet spot what's your

817
00:33:45,169 --> 00:33:43,440
pocket yeah well it's it's I I'm on on

818
00:33:47,870 --> 00:33:45,179
the board and it's really as a business

819
00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:47,880
board so here we deal more with the with

820
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:50,700
the financial things and new fund

821
00:33:57,289 --> 00:33:54,480
doesn't do research per se in in in in

822
00:33:59,210 --> 00:33:57,299
in in a in an investigatory way they do

823
00:34:02,269 --> 00:33:59,220
but they're not giving grants to people

824
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:02,279
to do scientific research like the fund

825
00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:05,039
was so no one's actually coming to me to

826
00:34:10,070 --> 00:34:06,960
say oh what do you think we should do in

827
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:10,080
with this aspect of the of the subject

828
00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:14,159
that just doesn't happen uh I I we have

829
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:15,960
a meeting coming up about tomorrow to be

830
00:34:21,649 --> 00:34:18,720
honest with you a board meeting will all

831
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:21,659
be together but uh yeah we're trying to

832
00:34:26,570 --> 00:34:23,520
just from the organization financially

833
00:34:28,970 --> 00:34:26,580
and we have some people on the

834
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:28,980
organization whose purpose it is to

835
00:34:33,050 --> 00:34:31,200
basically

836
00:34:35,629 --> 00:34:33,060
just see that the field investigators

837
00:34:37,790 --> 00:34:35,639
are doing their jobs as as are set forth

838
00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:37,800
in our field investigators manual

839
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:39,300
so those are the people that are sort of

840
00:34:42,530 --> 00:34:41,040
have their literally boots on the ground

841
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:42,540
in a lot of cases

842
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:45,359
what is the um not not to get too

843
00:34:50,210 --> 00:34:47,040
controversial and I want to move into

844
00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:50,220
some of the cases that that you um have

845
00:34:53,169 --> 00:34:52,200
kind of uh pinned

846
00:34:56,210 --> 00:34:53,179
um

847
00:35:00,410 --> 00:34:56,220
there since 2000

848
00:35:02,329 --> 00:35:00,420
you know uh uh 17 December when the

849
00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:02,339
first stories came out it's brought in a

850
00:35:07,070 --> 00:35:05,160
huge influx of of people young people

851
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,080
interested in this field and and are

852
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:09,359
studying this and doing research

853
00:35:11,630 --> 00:35:10,200
um

854
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:11,640
yeah everyone will tell you there's kind

855
00:35:15,470 --> 00:35:13,440
of a a big

856
00:35:17,210 --> 00:35:15,480
a step going from you know doing the

857
00:35:18,829 --> 00:35:17,220
research that you can do now online that

858
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,839
when we were young it was you go to the

859
00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:20,400
bookstore and there's a special section

860
00:35:24,349 --> 00:35:22,020
that you go some bookstores still have

861
00:35:26,690 --> 00:35:24,359
that section and you would find those

862
00:35:29,210 --> 00:35:26,700
few books and it was always you know

863
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:29,220
put together with Bermuda Triangle and

864
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:32,880
and right and other things and and and

865
00:35:37,210 --> 00:35:35,520
then you go from that to people who are

866
00:35:39,290 --> 00:35:37,220
again you know boots on the ground

867
00:35:41,810 --> 00:35:39,300
research going up knocking on doors

868
00:35:42,589 --> 00:35:41,820
people have reported and doing that

869
00:35:47,210 --> 00:35:42,599
um

870
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:47,220
so it's interesting you know that both

871
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,720
are trying to get you know to the

872
00:35:52,910 --> 00:35:50,400
answers but one is kind of more like an

873
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:52,920
armchair expert which I've been for many

874
00:35:57,230 --> 00:35:55,440
years and

875
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:57,240
um and then the actual people who are

876
00:36:02,050 --> 00:35:59,760
working on specific areas

877
00:36:04,849 --> 00:36:02,060
um you know like yourself

878
00:36:07,370 --> 00:36:04,859
so the question in there is what do you

879
00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:07,380
see the differences have have you seen

880
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:09,780
um people coming in what is the

881
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:11,040
difference empirically the evidence and

882
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:12,720
stuff that you're working on that the

883
00:36:17,690 --> 00:36:15,119
organization like mufon and the new one

884
00:36:19,130 --> 00:36:17,700
that you're in versus someone who's you

885
00:36:20,510 --> 00:36:19,140
know doing their own you know research

886
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:20,520
so to speak

887
00:36:25,609 --> 00:36:22,320
well the person who's doing their own

888
00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:25,619
research at least at this point doesn't

889
00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:29,400
have access to as a a huge database of

890
00:36:34,670 --> 00:36:32,700
cases and all the UFO organizations well

891
00:36:38,329 --> 00:36:34,680
all the UFO organizations the center for

892
00:36:40,910 --> 00:36:38,339
UFO studies headquartered in Chicago and

893
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:40,920
and mufon for example both have

894
00:36:46,010 --> 00:36:44,880
tremendous uh Case Files of of UFO cases

895
00:36:50,089 --> 00:36:46,020
and

896
00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:53,270
really so an independent researcher who

897
00:36:57,710 --> 00:36:54,780
was just decides they want to start

898
00:36:59,450 --> 00:36:57,720
really looking into the subject today is

899
00:37:01,430 --> 00:36:59,460
going to have a hard time finding out or

900
00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:01,440
what cases are occurring right now where

901
00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:03,599
were UFOs seen last week and what types

902
00:37:06,829 --> 00:37:05,460
of UFOs we're seeing unless they're

903
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:06,839
lucky enough to read an account in a

904
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,760
newspaper or ultimately someone

905
00:37:12,589 --> 00:37:10,800
published publishes an article in a

906
00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:12,599
magazine or something you're not going

907
00:37:17,690 --> 00:37:15,420
to have uh access to these tremendous

908
00:37:20,050 --> 00:37:17,700
files or if you're young you see it on

909
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:20,060
Tick Tock and so if it's on technology

910
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,500
yeah you can go to the National UFO

911
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:24,960
Reporting Center in Seattle and all

912
00:37:28,970 --> 00:37:27,119
their cases are made public every every

913
00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:28,980
month I guess Peter Davenport the

914
00:37:32,930 --> 00:37:31,140
director launched the case uploads the

915
00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:32,940
cases but there's not big descriptions

916
00:37:39,050 --> 00:37:34,680
there and he doesn't investigate cases

917
00:37:40,670 --> 00:37:39,060
so you can't sift between ifos and UFOs

918
00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:40,680
so

919
00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:43,640
but even with access to the Case Files

920
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:47,880
we we need more actual research to find

921
00:37:53,390 --> 00:37:50,880
out how What similarities are there

922
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:53,400
between the unknowns what odd quarks

923
00:37:58,069 --> 00:37:55,440
might they show that might help us

924
00:37:59,990 --> 00:37:58,079
understand how they work or what their

925
00:38:02,930 --> 00:38:00,000
modus operandi is or what their

926
00:38:04,490 --> 00:38:02,940
intentions are this type thing that's

927
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:04,500
the kind of work that has not been done

928
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:07,440
in in my personal opinion I don't think

929
00:38:13,490 --> 00:38:10,260
we've moved very far down the road as as

930
00:38:16,370 --> 00:38:13,500
to knowing who's behind or what is

931
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:16,380
behind the UFO phenomenon and why they

932
00:38:20,450 --> 00:38:17,280
are here

933
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:20,460
I think to an open-minded individual we

934
00:38:25,849 --> 00:38:22,079
can show that there's a real phenomenon

935
00:38:31,089 --> 00:38:25,859
there that's not of human origin and it

936
00:38:37,069 --> 00:38:34,730
we froze up there yeah not of human or

937
00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:37,079
why that keeps happening that's all

938
00:38:40,849 --> 00:38:39,480
right you cut out on not of human origin

939
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:40,859
or

940
00:38:44,990 --> 00:38:42,720
yeah uh

941
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:45,000
that that but they have an intelligent

942
00:38:50,270 --> 00:38:47,460
origin I don't believe they're humans I

943
00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:50,280
don't in my opinion this is me speaking

944
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:51,720
I can't scientifically prove it

945
00:38:58,190 --> 00:38:54,720
obviously but there is whatever's behind

946
00:39:01,250 --> 00:38:58,200
UFOs is is is not residing here on the

947
00:39:03,890 --> 00:39:01,260
earth let's put it back that way so

948
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:03,900
um here it is do you carve out any um

949
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:06,720
Niche for uh the extra-term Pastoral uh

950
00:39:11,870 --> 00:39:09,599
hypothesis uh Dr Michael Masters that

951
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:11,880
they're from the future right well it

952
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:14,160
could be the I I have a problem with the

953
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:17,040
future uh scenario we all have a problem

954
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:19,200
with the future yeah we're looking too

955
00:39:23,450 --> 00:39:22,079
good it's well yeah maybe I don't want

956
00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:23,460
to be there after I see how where things

957
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:25,140
are heading but

958
00:39:30,349 --> 00:39:27,119
it's it's sort of like solving one

959
00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:30,359
mystery with another and I I I see too

960
00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:33,900
many paradoxes there time paradoxes that

961
00:39:37,490 --> 00:39:36,420
that sort of make no sense and people

962
00:39:40,970 --> 00:39:37,500
say

963
00:39:42,589 --> 00:39:40,980
oh the aliens they they're humans uh way

964
00:39:44,930 --> 00:39:42,599
down the line we're going to evolve into

965
00:39:46,849 --> 00:39:44,940
that well Evolution doesn't seem to be

966
00:39:49,490 --> 00:39:46,859
drawing humans toward the common

967
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:49,500
perception of of what aliens will look

968
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:52,380
like and how they act they don't act

969
00:39:56,210 --> 00:39:54,960
like they there are ancestors they don't

970
00:40:01,810 --> 00:39:56,220
seem to know what's going on here on

971
00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:04,730
they're out there whatever's behind UFOs

972
00:40:08,890 --> 00:40:06,540
is is somewhere out there but I prefer

973
00:40:11,329 --> 00:40:08,900
not to solve

974
00:40:14,089 --> 00:40:11,339
breaking up again

975
00:40:15,890 --> 00:40:14,099
can you hear me yeah okay

976
00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:15,900
um we have another question uh Steve

977
00:40:19,370 --> 00:40:17,220
longan here

978
00:40:21,650 --> 00:40:19,380
um why was none of the data our results

979
00:40:25,609 --> 00:40:21,660
from the ambient research project ever

980
00:40:30,410 --> 00:40:28,790
well the the research wasn't released

981
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:30,420
because we haven't gone through it we

982
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,920
haven't sifted through that information

983
00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:34,079
yet and and collated and looked at it

984
00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:37,020
with experts and this has been an

985
00:40:40,910 --> 00:40:38,880
ongoing thread now for many years on a

986
00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:40,920
number of blog sites that we're holding

987
00:40:44,450 --> 00:40:42,540
on to this information we're not letting

988
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:44,460
it out but uh

989
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:47,760
Our intention was at the time to get

990
00:40:54,050 --> 00:40:49,920
enough money and we needed another 25 or

991
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,060
30 000 to complete the statistical

992
00:40:57,890 --> 00:40:56,400
investigation of the electronic files to

993
00:41:00,290 --> 00:40:57,900
see whether or not like I mentioned

994
00:41:03,650 --> 00:41:00,300
before we had correlations

995
00:41:05,810 --> 00:41:03,660
that ran out and then

996
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:05,820
you know people left and we just didn't

997
00:41:10,730 --> 00:41:08,160
have the the wherewithal then to go

998
00:41:13,370 --> 00:41:10,740
through those that rather huge pile of

999
00:41:15,290 --> 00:41:13,380
electronic data so I know for a fact

1000
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:15,300
that Mark roderer at the center for UFO

1001
00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:18,480
studies and myself and and some of the

1002
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:21,540
the original principal in in

1003
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:23,520
in the field who was being paid

1004
00:41:28,970 --> 00:41:26,640
full-time we are still engaging with

1005
00:41:30,829 --> 00:41:28,980
people statisticians independent

1006
00:41:32,930 --> 00:41:30,839
statisticians in this case there's one

1007
00:41:34,670 --> 00:41:32,940
one guy actually and who is not

1008
00:41:37,010 --> 00:41:34,680
connected with UFO groups who is looking

1009
00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:37,020
through the data

1010
00:41:41,089 --> 00:41:39,540
the electronic data and the notebooks

1011
00:41:43,310 --> 00:41:41,099
kept by the researchers and we're going

1012
00:41:45,050 --> 00:41:43,320
to find out if there are any

1013
00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:45,060
if there's any Wheat there among the

1014
00:41:47,870 --> 00:41:46,020
chaff

1015
00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:47,880
yeah that is really exciting for me

1016
00:41:51,650 --> 00:41:49,260
whenever I hear people that don't

1017
00:41:54,050 --> 00:41:51,660
normally work in the field who take

1018
00:41:56,270 --> 00:41:54,060
their special skill set and say hey I'm

1019
00:41:57,950 --> 00:41:56,280
open to applying it here I feel like

1020
00:42:00,650 --> 00:41:57,960
that doesn't happen without you know

1021
00:42:04,010 --> 00:42:00,660
what had happened uh with the Navy Tic

1022
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:04,020
Tac stuff um certainly uh Avi Loeb was

1023
00:42:08,210 --> 00:42:06,240
uh was um

1024
00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:08,220
you know it kind of cleared the way for

1025
00:42:13,010 --> 00:42:11,160
for his um take on it

1026
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:13,020
um do you find that that groups like

1027
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:16,740
uapx as an example who were like you

1028
00:42:19,490 --> 00:42:18,240
were doing setting up the sensors and

1029
00:42:21,470 --> 00:42:19,500
stuff or the abductions that they were

1030
00:42:23,150 --> 00:42:21,480
doing in in another way is there any

1031
00:42:25,370 --> 00:42:23,160
overlap or do you guys work in

1032
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:25,380
conjunction are you dialoguing with each

1033
00:42:31,550 --> 00:42:27,839
other well I I personally am not but I

1034
00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:31,560
know all of uipx and and I know that uh

1035
00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:33,240
the center for UFO studies Michael

1036
00:42:37,069 --> 00:42:34,800
Rodger does interact with a number of

1037
00:42:40,730 --> 00:42:37,079
those people not necessarily Avi lobe

1038
00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:40,740
but uh Evan knuth and yeah and there's

1039
00:42:45,410 --> 00:42:42,720
some other folks too and and yeah there

1040
00:42:47,690 --> 00:42:45,420
are a number of uh efforts to make these

1041
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:47,700
uh call them what you will boxes or

1042
00:42:51,650 --> 00:42:49,740
instrument units or what have you but I

1043
00:42:53,569 --> 00:42:51,660
think that's a fruitful field and and

1044
00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:53,579
believe me I'm I'm very

1045
00:42:57,890 --> 00:42:55,740
very very annoyed that the amp project

1046
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:57,900
didn't work out here as we expected it

1047
00:43:02,750 --> 00:42:59,520
to and it's it's almost forgotten now

1048
00:43:04,370 --> 00:43:02,760
it's a footnote to your UFO history but

1049
00:43:08,089 --> 00:43:04,380
for some people who sort of keep it

1050
00:43:09,890 --> 00:43:08,099
alive and and keep sort of uh uh coming

1051
00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:09,900
down on us a little bit as to what are

1052
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:11,880
you guys doing with that information but

1053
00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:14,640
it's embarrassing and we we we didn't

1054
00:43:19,309 --> 00:43:16,380
get the job done there

1055
00:43:21,710 --> 00:43:19,319
okay so for those of you who who aren't

1056
00:43:23,569 --> 00:43:21,720
familiar with this can we take out the

1057
00:43:25,970 --> 00:43:23,579
um shock paddles and put them our life

1058
00:43:26,750 --> 00:43:25,980
uh in into the amp project and talk

1059
00:43:29,930 --> 00:43:26,760
about

1060
00:43:32,990 --> 00:43:29,940
um just over our review uh what what it

1061
00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:33,000
was intended well the intention was to

1062
00:43:36,410 --> 00:43:34,920
see whether or not there were actual

1063
00:43:38,990 --> 00:43:36,420
events

1064
00:43:42,170 --> 00:43:39,000
that abductees described as abductions

1065
00:43:45,170 --> 00:43:42,180
obviously occurring in in a person's

1066
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:45,180
life mostly there we had to decide where

1067
00:43:49,370 --> 00:43:46,800
do these events occur most of the time

1068
00:43:51,050 --> 00:43:49,380
in an automobile when they're just

1069
00:43:52,490 --> 00:43:51,060
walking down the street and in a room in

1070
00:43:54,050 --> 00:43:52,500
their house in a bedroom what have you

1071
00:43:56,990 --> 00:43:54,060
because we had to put this instrument

1072
00:43:59,329 --> 00:43:57,000
unit somewhere and it's a situated

1073
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:59,339
somewhere it wasn't portable and so we

1074
00:44:03,290 --> 00:44:01,920
ended up putting these units mostly in

1075
00:44:04,910 --> 00:44:03,300
the bedroom of a person because they

1076
00:44:07,370 --> 00:44:04,920
would say they would be taken in the

1077
00:44:08,569 --> 00:44:07,380
night and the light would appear and the

1078
00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:08,579
temperature might go down all this kind

1079
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:11,640
of stuff so we studied and worked very

1080
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:13,680
closely with Dr Jacobs and Bun Hawkins

1081
00:44:18,050 --> 00:44:16,319
at the time to find out what types of uh

1082
00:44:19,550 --> 00:44:18,060
phenomena were reported by people during

1083
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:19,560
an abduction and what kind of

1084
00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:21,119
instruments might be used to pick these

1085
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:23,220
up we did not have a camera in the Box

1086
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:26,160
for the Privacy aspects you alluded to

1087
00:44:33,290 --> 00:44:30,000
before nor did we have a us a microphone

1088
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:33,300
per se we had a level I A A an

1089
00:44:38,210 --> 00:44:35,520
instrument that picked up the absence or

1090
00:44:40,190 --> 00:44:38,220
or the presence of sound and and what

1091
00:44:41,809 --> 00:44:40,200
decibel level it was but it couldn't

1092
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:41,819
make out words or anything like that so

1093
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:43,740
you could say oh yes a loud sound just

1094
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:46,560
occurred in a lasted uh a third of a

1095
00:44:52,970 --> 00:44:50,640
second so we had a best guess as to what

1096
00:44:54,890 --> 00:44:52,980
the instruments might pick up uh parts

1097
00:44:58,010 --> 00:44:54,900
of an abduction and we stuff those into

1098
00:44:59,569 --> 00:44:58,020
this box and we plugged it in and hooked

1099
00:45:01,730 --> 00:44:59,579
it up to a modem

1100
00:45:04,569 --> 00:45:01,740
and it's just a way for three or six

1101
00:45:10,370 --> 00:45:04,579
months until this the particular uh

1102
00:45:14,809 --> 00:45:13,010
so um it's interesting because AI

1103
00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:14,819
technology is

1104
00:45:19,730 --> 00:45:18,060
it's getting so I the first thought came

1105
00:45:22,670 --> 00:45:19,740
in was scary

1106
00:45:26,690 --> 00:45:22,680
um because it's you know like I chat

1107
00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:26,700
um right I mean it's it's it's insane

1108
00:45:29,809 --> 00:45:28,260
um what is I want to say coming but it's

1109
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:29,819
already here because you know they're

1110
00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:31,920
Stanford students that got called out

1111
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:34,380
for using them to write their term

1112
00:45:41,870 --> 00:45:37,920
papers the technology and it's it is uh

1113
00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:41,880
Jesus insane I'm interested in in

1114
00:45:48,109 --> 00:45:45,180
applying that to some of the

1115
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:48,119
um data that has been gathered I wonder

1116
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:50,760
what would be you know derived from that

1117
00:45:56,210 --> 00:45:52,800
if anything

1118
00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:56,220
yeah who who who who knows there Dean

1119
00:46:01,010 --> 00:45:58,800
um and it's been 20 years now since

1120
00:46:02,510 --> 00:46:01,020
the amp project came to end and the data

1121
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:02,520
we got

1122
00:46:07,609 --> 00:46:05,760
it could be much more easily harvested

1123
00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:07,619
now with with better equipment smaller

1124
00:46:13,010 --> 00:46:09,780
equipment less expensive equipment that

1125
00:46:14,270 --> 00:46:13,020
the study could be redone and this time

1126
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:14,280
maybe it could even be something that

1127
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,079
you could have in a car or it could it

1128
00:46:20,329 --> 00:46:18,960
could use you know Wi-Fi and Bluetooth

1129
00:46:22,430 --> 00:46:20,339
and all this kind of stuff that was a

1130
00:46:24,950 --> 00:46:22,440
little bit ahead of us we still had to

1131
00:46:28,490 --> 00:46:24,960
have our units hooked up via by a cable

1132
00:46:30,290 --> 00:46:28,500
to to the uh to the phone lines and in

1133
00:46:32,569 --> 00:46:30,300
the house so we could modem the

1134
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:32,579
information each day but if anybody

1135
00:46:38,809 --> 00:46:35,760
wants to do abduction research that's a

1136
00:46:41,690 --> 00:46:38,819
fantastic area to start and

1137
00:46:43,370 --> 00:46:41,700
it's easier to do than it was for us we

1138
00:46:46,250 --> 00:46:43,380
had to engage a lab to build this stuff

1139
00:46:51,230 --> 00:46:46,260
and pay someone to design the Box a lot

1140
00:46:55,790 --> 00:46:53,690
oh I'm losing you a lot of this was

1141
00:46:59,210 --> 00:46:55,800
really yeah a lot of this equipment is

1142
00:47:01,069 --> 00:46:59,220
off the shelf now and uh I think the the

1143
00:47:03,290 --> 00:47:01,079
amp project could be done much cheaper

1144
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:03,300
and much better I think than than we

1145
00:47:11,089 --> 00:47:05,760
than our pioneering effort to do it so

1146
00:47:13,329 --> 00:47:11,099
what area of uh ufology u8 apology I

1147
00:47:16,130 --> 00:47:13,339
guess we can't say UAP all that sounds

1148
00:47:17,569 --> 00:47:16,140
that just sounds awful it does not roll

1149
00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:17,579
off the tongue at all

1150
00:47:25,190 --> 00:47:21,900
um what area of it uh is your your uh

1151
00:47:26,990 --> 00:47:25,200
kind of the the chewy inside for you the

1152
00:47:29,210 --> 00:47:27,000
caramel inside what is the thing that

1153
00:47:31,309 --> 00:47:29,220
really um keeps you going did it start

1154
00:47:33,950 --> 00:47:31,319
out with sightings and then become

1155
00:47:36,349 --> 00:47:33,960
abductions or

1156
00:47:37,970 --> 00:47:36,359
yeah yeah it you know that's a good

1157
00:47:39,410 --> 00:47:37,980
question do you no one ever quite put it

1158
00:47:41,930 --> 00:47:39,420
that way to me

1159
00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:41,940
um I I did morph into abductions for a

1160
00:47:45,470 --> 00:47:44,040
while into studying abductions my wife

1161
00:47:47,690 --> 00:47:45,480
and I did and I worked closely with

1162
00:47:50,809 --> 00:47:47,700
Richard Hall and we interviewed quite a

1163
00:47:52,730 --> 00:47:50,819
few people but I I'm not comfortable

1164
00:47:55,550 --> 00:47:52,740
with abductions I certainly think

1165
00:47:57,890 --> 00:47:55,560
something's going on and

1166
00:48:00,589 --> 00:47:57,900
uh after the amp project came to an end

1167
00:48:02,210 --> 00:48:00,599
I didn't see any what Mike continued

1168
00:48:04,609 --> 00:48:02,220
presence with abductees was going to do

1169
00:48:06,349 --> 00:48:04,619
short of reassuring them that the

1170
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,359
phenomenon probably wasn't going to kill

1171
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:08,640
them or if they they did emerge alive

1172
00:48:13,010 --> 00:48:11,040
after each episode I would still keep in

1173
00:48:14,930 --> 00:48:13,020
touch with people and I work closely

1174
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:14,940
with some of them but gee I sort of

1175
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:17,040
moved a little bit away from abductions

1176
00:48:24,410 --> 00:48:21,599
and I'm still just back to sightings

1177
00:48:31,250 --> 00:48:24,420
unfortunately and and what time I have

1178
00:48:36,770 --> 00:48:34,250
Outreach basis you you do try to find

1179
00:48:38,569 --> 00:48:36,780
sorry we lost you again yeah I'm I'm

1180
00:48:41,210 --> 00:48:38,579
trying to find what what sightings are

1181
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:41,220
are occurring nowadays because I I think

1182
00:48:45,290 --> 00:48:43,440
the only thing I can do at this point is

1183
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:45,300
to try to

1184
00:48:51,410 --> 00:48:48,000
get a scientist or scientists interested

1185
00:48:53,569 --> 00:48:51,420
in looking into the phenomenon and how

1186
00:48:56,270 --> 00:48:53,579
can I do that the best way to do it is

1187
00:48:58,370 --> 00:48:56,280
to show that person what kind of cases

1188
00:48:59,210 --> 00:48:58,380
are occurring today and what's happening

1189
00:49:02,630 --> 00:48:59,220
today

1190
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:02,640
and you know working with Newfound to

1191
00:49:09,230 --> 00:49:05,520
the best of my ability there and

1192
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:09,240
and because ultimately if science looks

1193
00:49:13,010 --> 00:49:11,520
at this phenomenon and gets paid for

1194
00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:13,020
doing it they're going to have to look

1195
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:16,020
at new cases and new cases are something

1196
00:49:20,450 --> 00:49:18,480
that mufon has they're not going to look

1197
00:49:22,670 --> 00:49:20,460
at cases from the 50s as much as we like

1198
00:49:26,030 --> 00:49:22,680
them as in the 60s as much as we like

1199
00:49:28,670 --> 00:49:26,040
them they want new data and I can tell

1200
00:49:31,309 --> 00:49:28,680
somebody what kind of new sightings or

1201
00:49:32,750 --> 00:49:31,319
what the sightings are today and where

1202
00:49:35,930 --> 00:49:32,760
you might want to go and who you might

1203
00:49:38,510 --> 00:49:35,940
want to speak with and that's I think

1204
00:49:40,910 --> 00:49:38,520
what I could I could do okay I want to

1205
00:49:42,490 --> 00:49:40,920
hit that but it's it's interesting I I

1206
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:42,500
kind of went the other way

1207
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:45,839
I I mean I've always been fascinated in

1208
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,480
all aspects of the phenomenon

1209
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:50,240
um but

1210
00:49:55,730 --> 00:49:53,700
I started out interested in the craft

1211
00:49:57,290 --> 00:49:55,740
and wanting to get footage of the craft

1212
00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:57,300
and and see it and I've seen some

1213
00:50:00,349 --> 00:49:58,800
compelling

1214
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:00,359
um footage for sure

1215
00:50:04,910 --> 00:50:03,119
uh and I kind of feel like after all

1216
00:50:06,170 --> 00:50:04,920
these years and even though everyone has

1217
00:50:08,030 --> 00:50:06,180
a cell phone I always like to make the

1218
00:50:09,290 --> 00:50:08,040
joke when everyone says you know when I

1219
00:50:10,849 --> 00:50:09,300
get the old

1220
00:50:12,589 --> 00:50:10,859
the old knee-jerk reaction well

1221
00:50:14,510 --> 00:50:12,599
everyone's got a phone camera now so

1222
00:50:17,150 --> 00:50:14,520
they can be doing I'm like yeah but look

1223
00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:17,160
at their field of view

1224
00:50:22,910 --> 00:50:20,280
you know no one is going like this

1225
00:50:25,250 --> 00:50:22,920
you know and so uh everyone's looking

1226
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:25,260
down and so it doesn't mean that you

1227
00:50:28,849 --> 00:50:26,880
know we're going to be getting more of

1228
00:50:32,930 --> 00:50:28,859
this but

1229
00:50:35,390 --> 00:50:32,940
um I feel like it's kind of so far

1230
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:35,400
almost capped out in certain things I

1231
00:50:40,609 --> 00:50:37,680
mean I still do not have any shots that

1232
00:50:42,589 --> 00:50:40,619
I've seen footage that are compelling

1233
00:50:44,990 --> 00:50:42,599
for me that that I feel intuitively like

1234
00:50:46,670 --> 00:50:45,000
all right I'm seeing nuts and bolts I'm

1235
00:50:49,130 --> 00:50:46,680
seeing panels I'm seeing this and that

1236
00:50:50,990 --> 00:50:49,140
several witnesses have seen those

1237
00:50:53,690 --> 00:50:51,000
but I there's no picture I can hold up

1238
00:50:55,549 --> 00:50:53,700
and say hey here it is here's the panel

1239
00:50:57,710 --> 00:50:55,559
here's a little smudge print here's you

1240
00:50:59,809 --> 00:50:57,720
know right they left a little gas or you

1241
00:51:01,309 --> 00:50:59,819
know a little oil from changing the oil

1242
00:51:04,370 --> 00:51:01,319
under it

1243
00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:04,380
um and so for me it it always is about

1244
00:51:07,790 --> 00:51:06,300
humans always about people The Human

1245
00:51:10,130 --> 00:51:07,800
Experience the you know people

1246
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:10,140
experience and so I I kind of ended up

1247
00:51:14,569 --> 00:51:13,440
finding myself going back to the

1248
00:51:17,450 --> 00:51:14,579
experiencers

1249
00:51:20,569 --> 00:51:17,460
and and looking at at what they have and

1250
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,579
and I again anything that that I'm

1251
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:22,319
pursuing I think we have to look at you

1252
00:51:27,470 --> 00:51:24,319
know sleep paralysis and all those other

1253
00:51:28,970 --> 00:51:27,480
prosaic possibilities but you know I

1254
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:28,980
always look for certain things like if

1255
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:32,160
someone says you know no my spouse next

1256
00:51:37,490 --> 00:51:35,760
to me in bed saw the same thing well two

1257
00:51:38,569 --> 00:51:37,500
people don't have sleep paralysis I

1258
00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:38,579
don't know unless there's a sleep

1259
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:41,220
paralysis dating website app that you

1260
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:42,960
you know swipe right for someone that

1261
00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:45,599
that has paralysis while they sleep yeah

1262
00:51:48,410 --> 00:51:46,920
let's hook up

1263
00:51:50,569 --> 00:51:48,420
um so it's really

1264
00:51:52,130 --> 00:51:50,579
you know for me though those things are

1265
00:51:55,549 --> 00:51:52,140
still of Interest

1266
00:51:57,890 --> 00:51:55,559
but you know again it's it's how do we

1267
00:51:59,210 --> 00:51:57,900
get that I hate to use that term because

1268
00:52:00,349 --> 00:51:59,220
it's like saying disclosure but the

1269
00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:00,359
Smoking Gun

1270
00:52:04,670 --> 00:52:02,160
and so it sounds like you've had your

1271
00:52:06,650 --> 00:52:04,680
frustrations you know across the board

1272
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:06,660
but you're still very you know

1273
00:52:11,950 --> 00:52:08,640
optimistic and you're getting you know

1274
00:52:14,329 --> 00:52:11,960
doing sightings research I I am and and

1275
00:52:16,490 --> 00:52:14,339
one of the reasons I I haven't

1276
00:52:18,049 --> 00:52:16,500
completely walked away from abductions

1277
00:52:21,410 --> 00:52:18,059
you know and yeah I would like to find

1278
00:52:24,109 --> 00:52:21,420
the Smoky saucer but nonetheless

1279
00:52:26,450 --> 00:52:24,119
but Bud Hopkins passed away a number of

1280
00:52:27,710 --> 00:52:26,460
years ago uh we'd have a guy we used to

1281
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:27,720
have a fellow Richard Haynes who was

1282
00:52:30,890 --> 00:52:30,000
another researcher he he's very elderly

1283
00:52:33,410 --> 00:52:30,900
now and

1284
00:52:35,089 --> 00:52:33,420
I'm always retired for field uh Dave

1285
00:52:37,730 --> 00:52:35,099
Jacobs is no longer active in the field

1286
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:37,740
so we don't have these large profile

1287
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,079
prominent abduction researchers that we

1288
00:52:44,510 --> 00:52:42,720
had 20 25 years ago who were pretty

1289
00:52:46,910 --> 00:52:44,520
transparent about the work they were

1290
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:46,920
doing and I don't know of anybody I

1291
00:52:53,089 --> 00:52:50,240
could really point to that is prominent

1292
00:52:55,970 --> 00:52:53,099
I know some abduction researchers but

1293
00:52:58,370 --> 00:52:55,980
who is prominent and and is publishing a

1294
00:53:00,530 --> 00:52:58,380
lot and is making lectures and is saying

1295
00:53:03,410 --> 00:53:00,540
here's what here's what abductees are

1296
00:53:05,329 --> 00:53:03,420
reporting now so I couldn't really tell

1297
00:53:07,730 --> 00:53:05,339
you are there any new wrinkles in the

1298
00:53:11,569 --> 00:53:07,740
UFO Abduction field now that weren't

1299
00:53:15,290 --> 00:53:11,579
there in the year 2000 or in 1990

1300
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:15,300
uh and and there's a big hole there I

1301
00:53:18,650 --> 00:53:17,220
and when I read every once in a while

1302
00:53:20,270 --> 00:53:18,660
someone will write an account of an

1303
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:20,280
abduction who apparently is an abduction

1304
00:53:23,809 --> 00:53:21,599
researcher

1305
00:53:26,270 --> 00:53:23,819
I don't learn anything new they're just

1306
00:53:28,730 --> 00:53:26,280
telling me stuff that was extant back in

1307
00:53:30,650 --> 00:53:28,740
1980 about missing time and oh they can

1308
00:53:32,030 --> 00:53:30,660
disappear anytime on and that they're

1309
00:53:34,130 --> 00:53:32,040
gone missing they could go for a walk

1310
00:53:35,930 --> 00:53:34,140
and have an experience I know all that

1311
00:53:38,930 --> 00:53:35,940
like but

1312
00:53:40,930 --> 00:53:38,940
is anything new there Dave Jacobs had

1313
00:53:44,210 --> 00:53:40,940
some very

1314
00:53:46,430 --> 00:53:44,220
buy into it or not as you will he had a

1315
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:46,440
very explicit scenario he saw that was

1316
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:48,720
unfolding here on Earth with regard to

1317
00:53:52,549 --> 00:53:50,880
the the so-called aliens and abduction

1318
00:53:55,069 --> 00:53:52,559
and abductees

1319
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:55,079
are those things still occurring to

1320
00:54:00,910 --> 00:53:57,839
abductees Dave's not around to tell us

1321
00:54:04,130 --> 00:54:00,920
but our people still being trained by

1322
00:54:06,349 --> 00:54:04,140
these people who are half hybrids are

1323
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:06,359
these are they still being asked oh how

1324
00:54:11,390 --> 00:54:09,119
do I eat or how do I act in public so I

1325
00:54:13,370 --> 00:54:11,400
can fit in with human society I have no

1326
00:54:14,569 --> 00:54:13,380
idea because no abduction researchers

1327
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,579
are writing about that kind of stuff

1328
00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:16,800
that's a really good point we don't have

1329
00:54:22,970 --> 00:54:19,020
you know someone who who comes from

1330
00:54:26,089 --> 00:54:22,980
Temple University right or Harvard or is

1331
00:54:27,530 --> 00:54:26,099
a you know world-class artists like Bud

1332
00:54:29,150 --> 00:54:27,540
Hopkins

1333
00:54:30,770 --> 00:54:29,160
um David is still around but he's yeah

1334
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:30,780
like you said you know kind of inactive

1335
00:54:36,049 --> 00:54:33,839
but his research in the hybrids I think

1336
00:54:37,490 --> 00:54:36,059
was um I would say that would be a

1337
00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:37,500
specialty uh

1338
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:38,760
um a good friend of mine is actually

1339
00:54:43,849 --> 00:54:42,000
working on something right now that um

1340
00:54:45,410 --> 00:54:43,859
you know gets involved in the hybrid

1341
00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:45,420
program

1342
00:54:48,349 --> 00:54:46,319
um

1343
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,359
which it's

1344
00:54:52,370 --> 00:54:50,400
again it's it's

1345
00:54:54,410 --> 00:54:52,380
you can tell me anything you can say

1346
00:54:57,349 --> 00:54:54,420
that dragons exist

1347
00:54:59,089 --> 00:54:57,359
but I need to study you

1348
00:55:01,730 --> 00:54:59,099
I need to study the person who's telling

1349
00:55:03,230 --> 00:55:01,740
me this in order for me to find uh you

1350
00:55:05,569 --> 00:55:03,240
know something that is relatable to

1351
00:55:08,750 --> 00:55:05,579
truth because unless you know I can I

1352
00:55:10,430 --> 00:55:08,760
can see it and um you know it is that's

1353
00:55:13,569 --> 00:55:10,440
a really good point we don't have that

1354
00:55:16,490 --> 00:55:13,579
kind of person out there I mean you know

1355
00:55:18,109 --> 00:55:16,500
you know to a lesser or more or lesser

1356
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:18,119
degree you've got Avi Loeb who's kind of

1357
00:55:20,809 --> 00:55:19,440
you know the Galileo project who's

1358
00:55:23,809 --> 00:55:20,819
leading that and and you know there's

1359
00:55:25,069 --> 00:55:23,819
Harvard again but yeah we don't we don't

1360
00:55:26,569 --> 00:55:25,079
have that I mean there's a lot of people

1361
00:55:28,490 --> 00:55:26,579
not to insult people that do a lot of

1362
00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:28,500
research like Yvonne Smith

1363
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:29,760
you know

1364
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:30,960
um probably a whole bunch of other

1365
00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:33,599
people but as far as people who are out

1366
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:36,420
there on Oprah say are you know

1367
00:55:40,670 --> 00:55:38,160
you know writing those books that are

1368
00:55:42,770 --> 00:55:40,680
covered by the big we you know we don't

1369
00:55:45,410 --> 00:55:42,780
we need that yeah they're not there and

1370
00:55:48,349 --> 00:55:45,420
you combine that with the uh very

1371
00:55:50,930 --> 00:55:48,359
well-known reluctance of abductees to

1372
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:50,940
really go out and be interviewed by

1373
00:55:57,549 --> 00:55:54,240
people and appear on uh publicly and or

1374
00:55:59,870 --> 00:55:57,559
on talk shows or podcasts now

1375
00:56:02,210 --> 00:55:59,880
speaking of talk shows and radio every

1376
00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:02,220
once in a while we would get a request

1377
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:04,260
from someone in the news media can you

1378
00:56:08,690 --> 00:56:07,440
kgrn for you for one second KGO we're

1379
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:08,700
going to be signing off so thank you

1380
00:56:14,329 --> 00:56:11,280
kgra listeners

1381
00:56:16,970 --> 00:56:14,339
um continue we'll be going to uh YouTube

1382
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,980
as we continue here but uh sign off

1383
00:56:20,450 --> 00:56:18,480
there and thank you for listening sorry

1384
00:56:23,210 --> 00:56:20,460
go ahead oh yeah I was just saying that

1385
00:56:26,809 --> 00:56:23,220
that every once in a while we would get

1386
00:56:28,609 --> 00:56:26,819
a request from a news media person can

1387
00:56:30,829 --> 00:56:28,619
you direct me to an abductee that I

1388
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:30,839
could interview or speak with and I

1389
00:56:33,530 --> 00:56:32,400
always cringe when that request comes up

1390
00:56:37,309 --> 00:56:33,540
because

1391
00:56:38,930 --> 00:56:37,319
the abductees or experiencers don't like

1392
00:56:41,630 --> 00:56:38,940
to do that they don't really like to

1393
00:56:43,849 --> 00:56:41,640
give lectures at the mufon Symposium on

1394
00:56:47,870 --> 00:56:43,859
their experiences you get the rare one

1395
00:56:49,849 --> 00:56:47,880
that will but it's not very common and

1396
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:49,859
so that even makes it more difficult

1397
00:56:56,809 --> 00:56:53,280
okay that that is really interesting

1398
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:56,819
um Rob because I always uh analogy I use

1399
00:57:01,390 --> 00:56:58,559
whenever I hear someone who's who's

1400
00:57:06,290 --> 00:57:01,400
inclined to look at it in a humorous way

1401
00:57:08,210 --> 00:57:06,300
the tinfoil hat you know um slant it

1402
00:57:10,790 --> 00:57:08,220
it's always very upsetting because I say

1403
00:57:13,130 --> 00:57:10,800
you know you're going to say oh really

1404
00:57:14,750 --> 00:57:13,140
it was a UFO was a triangular was it a

1405
00:57:17,089 --> 00:57:14,760
flying saucer

1406
00:57:18,530 --> 00:57:17,099
um and then they you know do they probe

1407
00:57:21,650 --> 00:57:18,540
you do they do this and that and I

1408
00:57:25,130 --> 00:57:21,660
always say okay what if I said oh you

1409
00:57:27,770 --> 00:57:25,140
were abducted by another human was it a

1410
00:57:30,290 --> 00:57:27,780
black van or was it a white fan you know

1411
00:57:33,410 --> 00:57:30,300
was there rope in the back did they do

1412
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:33,420
this and that blah blah and so when you

1413
00:57:36,770 --> 00:57:35,520
have abductees that go and speak in

1414
00:57:39,950 --> 00:57:36,780
front of people that have to do that

1415
00:57:41,089 --> 00:57:39,960
it's like saying I'm someone and Grant I

1416
00:57:44,030 --> 00:57:41,099
know there are a lot of experiences that

1417
00:57:46,190 --> 00:57:44,040
that have made their peace with with

1418
00:57:48,530 --> 00:57:46,200
that type of relationship that they're

1419
00:57:51,410 --> 00:57:48,540
you know having with these beings but

1420
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:51,420
but there still is that aspect of I have

1421
00:57:54,890 --> 00:57:53,040
to go and say Here's this traumatic

1422
00:57:55,970 --> 00:57:54,900
thing where I was overtaken I mean

1423
00:57:58,250 --> 00:57:55,980
that's the fact

1424
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:58,260
and and I'm I got to speak about it so

1425
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:00,480
how many people who are you know who

1426
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:02,400
have been abducted by other humans and

1427
00:58:05,690 --> 00:58:04,079
stuff want to get up on stage and speak

1428
00:58:08,930 --> 00:58:05,700
about that and talk about that and do

1429
00:58:11,150 --> 00:58:08,940
selfies with people you know and some of

1430
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,160
these cases as you well know are

1431
00:58:15,290 --> 00:58:13,680
enormously personal it's difficult to do

1432
00:58:18,230 --> 00:58:15,300
it even in the privacy of a room with

1433
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:18,240
the abductees to ask them some of the

1434
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:19,680
questions you have to ask in order to

1435
00:58:24,170 --> 00:58:21,599
give a to give up

1436
00:58:27,770 --> 00:58:24,180
get a complete review of what occurred

1437
00:58:29,930 --> 00:58:27,780
to them and all kinds of questions and

1438
00:58:31,370 --> 00:58:29,940
and some of them are very touchy and

1439
00:58:32,750 --> 00:58:31,380
then you're going to say to a person oh

1440
00:58:34,670 --> 00:58:32,760
do you want to go up and talk about the

1441
00:58:37,130 --> 00:58:34,680
new funds Symposium about this

1442
00:58:40,309 --> 00:58:37,140
particular abduction hell no they're not

1443
00:58:42,170 --> 00:58:40,319
going to do that yeah yeah I always feel

1444
00:58:44,030 --> 00:58:42,180
like whenever I'm I'm asking someone to

1445
00:58:45,530 --> 00:58:44,040
do that I you know I worked on crime

1446
00:58:47,750 --> 00:58:45,540
shows for 20 years

1447
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:47,760
and it's like going and talking to the

1448
00:58:51,770 --> 00:58:50,160
victims again you know a lot of these

1449
00:58:52,970 --> 00:58:51,780
people are not you know victims some of

1450
00:58:54,589 --> 00:58:52,980
these people have done TED talks and

1451
00:58:56,930 --> 00:58:54,599
stuff you wouldn't know it uh they're

1452
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,940
functioning and they're able to to um

1453
00:58:59,569 --> 00:58:58,079
you know look at it like it's this

1454
00:59:03,109 --> 00:58:59,579
relationship thing especially like you

1455
00:59:04,730 --> 00:59:03,119
know Whitley strieber will say that but

1456
00:59:06,349 --> 00:59:04,740
but at the end of the day it's still you

1457
00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:06,359
know going up and asking people to say

1458
00:59:10,370 --> 00:59:08,400
yeah you know share this and it's kind

1459
00:59:12,589 --> 00:59:10,380
of like why am I sharing this you know

1460
00:59:14,930 --> 00:59:12,599
are we furthering the agenda along or is

1461
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:14,940
it just kind of entertainment so

1462
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:18,000
somewhere between the two I think is uh

1463
00:59:22,609 --> 00:59:20,400
is where it at least should lie so what

1464
00:59:24,410 --> 00:59:22,619
are you excited about today in the UFO

1465
00:59:26,510 --> 00:59:24,420
field what what gets you up what gets

1466
00:59:29,030 --> 00:59:26,520
you excited uh

1467
00:59:32,210 --> 00:59:29,040
well the the prospect that maybe uh

1468
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:32,220
things might open up a little bit with

1469
00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:34,079
regard to the the government's sightings

1470
00:59:37,970 --> 00:59:35,760
and the frustrations that are behind

1471
00:59:39,890 --> 00:59:37,980
their their research and and they're

1472
00:59:41,630 --> 00:59:39,900
they're obviously have pushed into the

1473
00:59:45,710 --> 00:59:41,640
tent here the at least the U.S

1474
00:59:47,210 --> 00:59:45,720
government has and uh and what's going

1475
00:59:50,030 --> 00:59:47,220
to come up you know after they turn the

1476
00:59:51,770 --> 00:59:50,040
crank on the other end there and so it's

1477
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:51,780
from from that aspect it's just pretty

1478
00:59:55,130 --> 00:59:54,000
exciting and and mufon has been working

1479
00:59:57,470 --> 00:59:55,140
a little bit with some of the

1480
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:57,480
congressional committees so it will be

1481
01:00:02,150 --> 00:59:59,280
interesting to hear exactly how far some

1482
01:00:06,049 --> 01:00:02,160
of that that has gone I don't know where

1483
01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:06,059
it has gone and so we have

1484
01:00:11,150 --> 01:00:08,960
the possibility that maybe

1485
01:00:13,370 --> 01:00:11,160
they'll be

1486
01:00:16,130 --> 01:00:13,380
some more definitive conclusions about

1487
01:00:17,930 --> 01:00:16,140
some of these sightings than we have

1488
01:00:19,849 --> 01:00:17,940
received in the past I'm not

1489
01:00:22,730 --> 01:00:19,859
tremendously hopeful that that's going

1490
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:22,740
to happen but Hope Springs Eternal I

1491
01:00:25,789 --> 01:00:24,480
guess

1492
01:00:28,730 --> 01:00:25,799
um there's a question here I can see in

1493
01:00:30,470 --> 01:00:28,740
the chat by Dr Richard

1494
01:00:32,750 --> 01:00:30,480
um he says can't the ETS present

1495
01:00:35,150 --> 01:00:32,760
themselves in the ways that they want us

1496
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:35,160
to perceive them in ways that may be

1497
01:00:40,690 --> 01:00:36,960
deceptive

1498
01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:40,700
that kind of um

1499
01:00:45,410 --> 01:00:43,680
that kind of answers uh that question in

1500
01:00:48,650 --> 01:00:45,420
and of itself that that they do want to

1501
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,660
be deceptive so the question is why why

1502
01:00:53,210 --> 01:00:51,119
would they want to be deceptive yeah

1503
01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:53,220
well Dean that's that's completely

1504
01:00:57,770 --> 01:00:55,260
speculative because you you and I could

1505
01:00:59,809 --> 01:00:57,780
do another three hours of podcasting

1506
01:01:01,309 --> 01:00:59,819
could just speculate on exactly why they

1507
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:01,319
might be doing what what it is they seem

1508
01:01:09,049 --> 01:01:05,520
to be doing but uh we we don't know uh

1509
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:09,059
and I I don't know why UFOs appear like

1510
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:10,799
they do or why abduction really why

1511
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,440
abductions occur uh if we're dealing

1512
01:01:18,230 --> 01:01:15,359
with I always end up by saying if we're

1513
01:01:20,450 --> 01:01:18,240
dealing with an alien species or a

1514
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:20,460
non-human intelligence we don't know how

1515
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:22,559
that intelligence is going to act their

1516
01:01:26,930 --> 01:01:24,960
logic doesn't equal our logic

1517
01:01:28,490 --> 01:01:26,940
uh the things that we would say well

1518
01:01:30,349 --> 01:01:28,500
they should land and make contact with

1519
01:01:32,690 --> 01:01:30,359
the leaders of the countries well that

1520
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:32,700
might not be in their playbook

1521
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:35,280
another thing I sometimes have said is

1522
01:01:38,210 --> 01:01:37,200
that Woody Allen once wrote about UFOs

1523
01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:38,220
and he said

1524
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:40,020
for all I know maybe they just like to

1525
01:01:45,530 --> 01:01:42,960
hover so you know that's as good an

1526
01:01:47,630 --> 01:01:45,540
answer as almost any uh

1527
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:47,640
right

1528
01:01:52,670 --> 01:01:51,119
you know my cat doesn't know why I I do

1529
01:01:55,069 --> 01:01:52,680
the things I I do and I don't know why

1530
01:01:56,770 --> 01:01:55,079
she does the things she does and and the

1531
01:01:58,910 --> 01:01:56,780
cats in the house all the time

1532
01:01:59,809 --> 01:01:58,920
yeah well it's kind of interesting

1533
01:02:02,210 --> 01:01:59,819
because

1534
01:02:05,569 --> 01:02:02,220
um looking at it from that that other

1535
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:05,579
perspective you know it's uh it's it is

1536
01:02:10,370 --> 01:02:07,440
a challenge because you know again

1537
01:02:12,049 --> 01:02:10,380
whenever I hear someone who is is like

1538
01:02:14,030 --> 01:02:12,059
an astrophysicist they say well you know

1539
01:02:17,329 --> 01:02:14,040
the physics are the physics it's the law

1540
01:02:19,309 --> 01:02:17,339
it's this or that it's like no they've

1541
01:02:21,650 --> 01:02:19,319
changed a few times over the history and

1542
01:02:25,069 --> 01:02:21,660
and and Einstein himself has been

1543
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:25,079
Rewritten you know a couple times and so

1544
01:02:30,049 --> 01:02:26,640
I think it's you know we don't know what

1545
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:30,059
we don't know and for me it's you know I

1546
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:32,880
kind of um if I can step out and and and

1547
01:02:37,010 --> 01:02:34,319
take my frustrations and

1548
01:02:38,990 --> 01:02:37,020
compartmentalize it I'm left with

1549
01:02:40,970 --> 01:02:39,000
well I guess we're not supposed to know

1550
01:02:44,930 --> 01:02:40,980
the ending you know the third act the

1551
01:02:47,569 --> 01:02:44,940
climax of this yet and you know for

1552
01:02:49,609 --> 01:02:47,579
researching bears

1553
01:02:52,130 --> 01:02:49,619
um you know we tag them we knock them

1554
01:02:54,410 --> 01:02:52,140
out so they don't rip our heads off

1555
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,420
um we do the same type of you know we

1556
01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:56,640
take uh you know stool samples we take

1557
01:03:02,210 --> 01:02:58,559
blood sample et cetera I'm not gonna

1558
01:03:04,010 --> 01:03:02,220
drop myself off in a den of bears

1559
01:03:05,450 --> 01:03:04,020
and just assume everything's going to be

1560
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:05,460
fine

1561
01:03:10,970 --> 01:03:08,160
um you know we're definitely a violent

1562
01:03:12,589 --> 01:03:10,980
you know species and and uh still

1563
01:03:13,789 --> 01:03:12,599
warring heavily

1564
01:03:15,890 --> 01:03:13,799
um I think we have we'll have better

1565
01:03:17,930 --> 01:03:15,900
luck with that when we get our you know

1566
01:03:20,630 --> 01:03:17,940
what together and

1567
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:20,640
um and and you know we can all agree on

1568
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,319
you know certain things that are

1569
01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:24,480
empirical like not killing your fellow

1570
01:03:29,329 --> 01:03:26,760
man and not doing things that that want

1571
01:03:30,770 --> 01:03:29,339
to make them kill you so when we get to

1572
01:03:35,390 --> 01:03:30,780
that then we know all right well there's

1573
01:03:37,970 --> 01:03:35,400
no you know um danger here but barring

1574
01:03:40,309 --> 01:03:37,980
that I'm not I'm not sure as much as I

1575
01:03:42,710 --> 01:03:40,319
really you know would like to see them

1576
01:03:44,809 --> 01:03:42,720
and have it be a formal thing but it's

1577
01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:44,819
again it's kind of like um

1578
01:03:48,410 --> 01:03:46,920
you know I don't we can't handle their

1579
01:03:50,750 --> 01:03:48,420
technology we keep screwing up or

1580
01:03:52,490 --> 01:03:50,760
weaponizing everything so I don't I see

1581
01:03:56,390 --> 01:03:52,500
both sides I don't know where you sit on

1582
01:03:58,190 --> 01:03:56,400
that yeah well I I basically yeah I do I

1583
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:58,200
am still enthusiastic about the study of

1584
01:04:03,530 --> 01:04:01,200
UFOs I I still like reading about what's

1585
01:04:05,690 --> 01:04:03,540
occurring both from a research point of

1586
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:05,700
view on from a citing point of view but

1587
01:04:09,289 --> 01:04:07,440
but truly

1588
01:04:11,150 --> 01:04:09,299
I'm I'm not sure we're going to learn

1589
01:04:12,530 --> 01:04:11,160
what the answer is for maybe hundreds of

1590
01:04:15,109 --> 01:04:12,540
years

1591
01:04:17,390 --> 01:04:15,119
I I you know I don't have a hell of a

1592
01:04:18,829 --> 01:04:17,400
lot of years left in my life here but I

1593
01:04:20,450 --> 01:04:18,839
I'm not sure I'm going to see this

1594
01:04:23,150 --> 01:04:20,460
resolved

1595
01:04:24,349 --> 01:04:23,160
yeah yeah well if they've if that the

1596
01:04:27,650 --> 01:04:24,359
research that that was done where

1597
01:04:29,630 --> 01:04:27,660
they're able to uh regress uh that Mouse

1598
01:04:31,370 --> 01:04:29,640
um DH them

1599
01:04:32,210 --> 01:04:31,380
you might get a chance you might get a

1600
01:04:34,849 --> 01:04:32,220
shot at it who knows

1601
01:04:35,470 --> 01:04:34,859
[Laughter]

1602
01:04:38,809 --> 01:04:35,480
um

1603
01:04:40,910 --> 01:04:38,819
uh yeah I mean I just kind of looking

1604
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:40,920
forward what are what are your hopes for

1605
01:04:45,890 --> 01:04:43,200
the field what are you what do you hope

1606
01:04:47,930 --> 01:04:45,900
to gain that you feel is realistic

1607
01:04:50,770 --> 01:04:47,940
well I think It ultimately is realistic

1608
01:04:54,530 --> 01:04:50,780
that we'll get more civilian researchers

1609
01:04:57,170 --> 01:04:54,540
Engineers scientists uh in Private

1610
01:04:59,089 --> 01:04:57,180
Industry and just in Academia looking at

1611
01:05:01,370 --> 01:04:59,099
the subject

1612
01:05:02,630 --> 01:05:01,380
Maybe by virtue of reading some of these

1613
01:05:04,010 --> 01:05:02,640
government reports where they keep

1614
01:05:05,210 --> 01:05:04,020
reiterating that there are things they

1615
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:05,220
can't explain

1616
01:05:11,390 --> 01:05:09,359
and I'm so my hope is that we'll get

1617
01:05:12,890 --> 01:05:11,400
like I say more civilian researchers in

1618
01:05:14,510 --> 01:05:12,900
involved in this where we'll have more

1619
01:05:17,930 --> 01:05:14,520
transparency as to what's going on

1620
01:05:19,630 --> 01:05:17,940
because every time the government comes

1621
01:05:22,670 --> 01:05:19,640
out with a report

1622
01:05:25,190 --> 01:05:22,680
it's about a classified we just get a

1623
01:05:28,250 --> 01:05:25,200
little bit of the story so it needs to

1624
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:28,260
be in the hands of of of of of the of

1625
01:05:31,910 --> 01:05:30,480
the non-military establishment and I

1626
01:05:33,349 --> 01:05:31,920
think maybe at that point we could see

1627
01:05:35,870 --> 01:05:33,359
some progress

1628
01:05:37,549 --> 01:05:35,880
yeah it's interesting because so far

1629
01:05:39,530 --> 01:05:37,559
it's been the most effective

1630
01:05:42,470 --> 01:05:39,540
um kind of covert operation if you will

1631
01:05:44,450 --> 01:05:42,480
if you look at at these um

1632
01:05:46,370 --> 01:05:44,460
these visitors

1633
01:05:49,130 --> 01:05:46,380
um the way that they've you know

1634
01:05:51,710 --> 01:05:49,140
operated without you know fully

1635
01:05:55,010 --> 01:05:51,720
committed to revealing themselves you

1636
01:05:57,950 --> 01:05:55,020
know for you know um decades if not

1637
01:05:59,630 --> 01:05:57,960
centuries uh and Beyond

1638
01:06:02,049 --> 01:05:59,640
um it really is a pretty well

1639
01:06:05,150 --> 01:06:02,059
comparatively you know um

1640
01:06:07,069 --> 01:06:05,160
operation but it definitely does seem

1641
01:06:10,370 --> 01:06:07,079
like an you know an operation that's

1642
01:06:12,650 --> 01:06:10,380
that's being done it it it does and and

1643
01:06:15,230 --> 01:06:12,660
to a certain extent they know us better

1644
01:06:17,450 --> 01:06:15,240
than we know ourselves

1645
01:06:19,010 --> 01:06:17,460
if you want to look at it like that they

1646
01:06:20,510 --> 01:06:19,020
seem to know how far they can go with

1647
01:06:22,670 --> 01:06:20,520
regard to sightings and then pull back

1648
01:06:25,069 --> 01:06:22,680
so that it doesn't quite tip the barrel

1649
01:06:26,390 --> 01:06:25,079
over into getting the humans all stirred

1650
01:06:27,529 --> 01:06:26,400
up and they'll start a research project

1651
01:06:29,390 --> 01:06:27,539
and they'll really figure out what's

1652
01:06:31,549 --> 01:06:29,400
going on but they just managed to keep

1653
01:06:35,029 --> 01:06:31,559
on the periphery of our

1654
01:06:36,410 --> 01:06:35,039
uh society and our culture uh and like

1655
01:06:38,750 --> 01:06:36,420
you say they're not quite tipping their

1656
01:06:41,390 --> 01:06:38,760
hands yeah and it's also interesting how

1657
01:06:44,569 --> 01:06:41,400
people react and I'm I'm it's kind of

1658
01:06:46,370 --> 01:06:44,579
like my last few questions here is when

1659
01:06:48,829 --> 01:06:46,380
people do react to seeing this like as

1660
01:06:51,770 --> 01:06:48,839
an example when I had um uh when Dave

1661
01:06:55,789 --> 01:06:51,780
Foley was a guest he had seen his first

1662
01:06:58,849 --> 01:06:55,799
UFO Only months before and uh with uh

1663
01:07:02,990 --> 01:06:58,859
Jeremy Corbell who hadn't seen

1664
01:07:04,910 --> 01:07:03,000
um a UAP and they saw this thing and

1665
01:07:06,230 --> 01:07:04,920
neither of them and Jeremy's a filmmaker

1666
01:07:07,789 --> 01:07:06,240
neither of them pulled out their phone

1667
01:07:09,289 --> 01:07:07,799
and took the picture they just looked at

1668
01:07:11,569 --> 01:07:09,299
it and went

1669
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:11,579
oh wow

1670
01:07:17,750 --> 01:07:14,400
yeah that's that's one of those that's

1671
01:07:20,150 --> 01:07:17,760
that's you know UFO uh as it went by

1672
01:07:23,210 --> 01:07:20,160
that was an exact dialogue I'm sure they

1673
01:07:25,069 --> 01:07:23,220
both agreed oh this is now we've

1674
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:25,079
seen we're seeing this thing and it

1675
01:07:28,730 --> 01:07:27,119
seemed to Dave like it put on a little

1676
01:07:30,549 --> 01:07:28,740
bit of a show it's like here we're here

1677
01:07:33,529 --> 01:07:30,559
and now we're gonna go

1678
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:33,539
and you know a lot of people claim that

1679
01:07:36,650 --> 01:07:34,799
they look up and they're able to almost

1680
01:07:37,970 --> 01:07:36,660
invoke it it comes it does its thing

1681
01:07:41,170 --> 01:07:37,980
there's a little show and Robbie Graham

1682
01:07:43,970 --> 01:07:41,180
will say yeah the lights has written on

1683
01:07:45,490 --> 01:07:43,980
on a number of articles on the fact that

1684
01:07:48,829 --> 01:07:45,500
and one of them was even titled

1685
01:07:51,410 --> 01:07:48,839
something like they know where you live

1686
01:07:53,329 --> 01:07:51,420
or they know where you are yeah that

1687
01:07:54,890 --> 01:07:53,339
some of these signings are seem to be

1688
01:07:57,589 --> 01:07:54,900
deliberately engineered for the people

1689
01:07:59,630 --> 01:07:57,599
who are seeing it and if you were just a

1690
01:08:01,670 --> 01:07:59,640
few feet literally 100 feet to one side

1691
01:08:04,130 --> 01:08:01,680
or the other to the right or the left

1692
01:08:07,069 --> 01:08:04,140
you wouldn't have seen this object it

1693
01:08:08,870 --> 01:08:07,079
would do what it did and uh yeah he's

1694
01:08:12,109 --> 01:08:08,880
they know where you live I think is is

1695
01:08:13,370 --> 01:08:12,119
what Mike Mike wrote on but yeah it's

1696
01:08:14,930 --> 01:08:13,380
there doesn't seem to be a personal

1697
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:14,940
interaction every once in a while

1698
01:08:19,729 --> 01:08:18,000
between a witness and and the UFO when

1699
01:08:22,610 --> 01:08:19,739
it's just a signing and not an abduction

1700
01:08:25,789 --> 01:08:22,620
well the connection is to me

1701
01:08:28,130 --> 01:08:25,799
um just like endlessly fascinating that

1702
01:08:31,849 --> 01:08:28,140
I mean when I think if I were to see UFO

1703
01:08:33,229 --> 01:08:31,859
I've not seen a UFO I think I would you

1704
01:08:34,849 --> 01:08:33,239
know be kind of elated and would be

1705
01:08:36,110 --> 01:08:34,859
taking this in and oh my God and the

1706
01:08:37,610 --> 01:08:36,120
whole theme and I know that some people

1707
01:08:39,050 --> 01:08:37,620
do have that reaction

1708
01:08:41,269 --> 01:08:39,060
but

1709
01:08:46,249 --> 01:08:41,279
for Dave he felt like it was this kind

1710
01:08:48,050 --> 01:08:46,259
of this wash this mild Xanax shower that

1711
01:08:49,550 --> 01:08:48,060
calmed him and it was just like wow I'm

1712
01:08:51,709 --> 01:08:49,560
now in the moment watching this thing

1713
01:08:53,930 --> 01:08:51,719
and I'm just going to appreciate it and

1714
01:08:56,329 --> 01:08:53,940
go almost like the vehicle whatever was

1715
01:08:59,150 --> 01:08:56,339
in it whatever energy was controlling

1716
01:09:02,749 --> 01:08:59,160
him from you know a couple miles away

1717
01:09:07,430 --> 01:09:05,030
yeah I have heard similar descriptions

1718
01:09:08,329 --> 01:09:07,440
of the aftermath of a UFO signing from

1719
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:08,339
people

1720
01:09:12,110 --> 01:09:09,600
yeah

1721
01:09:14,150 --> 01:09:12,120
so um what is the next

1722
01:09:16,490 --> 01:09:14,160
um phase for you what are you working on

1723
01:09:17,510 --> 01:09:16,500
next what's uh what's exciting for you

1724
01:09:20,329 --> 01:09:17,520
what is

1725
01:09:22,610 --> 01:09:20,339
well some of it's pretty mundane I I end

1726
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:22,620
up uh helping out with the mufon journal

1727
01:09:26,030 --> 01:09:24,420
each month so every month like uh

1728
01:09:28,430 --> 01:09:26,040
literally like clockwork here I have to

1729
01:09:30,349 --> 01:09:28,440
uh do some of the copy editing for the

1730
01:09:33,650 --> 01:09:30,359
Articles coming in so that takes up a

1731
01:09:35,570 --> 01:09:33,660
lot of my time and uh I'm now working a

1732
01:09:37,490 --> 01:09:35,580
little bit with the the National UFO

1733
01:09:40,610 --> 01:09:37,500
historical records Center in Albuquerque

1734
01:09:42,110 --> 01:09:40,620
with Dave marlar and so that that's an

1735
01:09:45,410 --> 01:09:42,120
up-and-coming project that has great

1736
01:09:48,370 --> 01:09:45,420
promise in finding a place for storing

1737
01:09:51,650 --> 01:09:48,380
records and valuable citing information

1738
01:09:53,090 --> 01:09:51,660
possibly down in Albuquerque and so yeah

1739
01:09:56,330 --> 01:09:53,100
I have a number of irons in the fire

1740
01:09:57,830 --> 01:09:56,340
there from that regard that uh always

1741
01:09:59,930 --> 01:09:57,840
keep me uh

1742
01:10:02,030 --> 01:09:59,940
keep me going not to mention things that

1743
01:10:04,669 --> 01:10:02,040
have not nothing to do with ufology that

1744
01:10:05,810 --> 01:10:04,679
seem to intrude on life so uh what can I

1745
01:10:07,790 --> 01:10:05,820
say

1746
01:10:10,070 --> 01:10:07,800
so if you could speak to anyone about

1747
01:10:11,570 --> 01:10:10,080
this who you think might have answers

1748
01:10:13,310 --> 01:10:11,580
who would it be and what question would

1749
01:10:15,650 --> 01:10:13,320
you ask that's my final question yeah

1750
01:10:17,150 --> 01:10:15,660
that's a good one I I don't know uh who

1751
01:10:21,229 --> 01:10:17,160
that would be to be honest with you and

1752
01:10:24,530 --> 01:10:21,239
let you down there on that I I can't Rob

1753
01:10:26,930 --> 01:10:24,540
yeah I know I know damn it it's like I I

1754
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:26,940
wish I could speak with some people who

1755
01:10:30,950 --> 01:10:29,280
are no longer here in the sense of I

1756
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:30,960
wish I could have met Alan heineck and

1757
01:10:36,830 --> 01:10:33,840
James McDonald and Alan and Donald

1758
01:10:39,970 --> 01:10:36,840
Keyhole but and yeah I would have a lot

1759
01:10:42,950 --> 01:10:39,980
of questions for them but uh

1760
01:10:44,149 --> 01:10:42,960
unfortunately this I I don't see that

1761
01:10:45,410 --> 01:10:44,159
there's nobody sitting on top of a

1762
01:10:46,610 --> 01:10:45,420
mountain where I want to climb up to the

1763
01:10:49,070 --> 01:10:46,620
mountain and ask them you know what's

1764
01:10:51,169 --> 01:10:49,080
the truth behind all this

1765
01:10:54,350 --> 01:10:51,179
the the that person is just isn't there

1766
01:10:56,810 --> 01:10:54,360
yeah no that's a good point

1767
01:10:58,130 --> 01:10:56,820
um well uh Rob thank you so much for

1768
01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:58,140
coming on the show

1769
01:11:02,270 --> 01:10:59,280
um I think this was your first time

1770
01:11:04,430 --> 01:11:02,280
right um podcast UFO

1771
01:11:06,250 --> 01:11:04,440
um welcome on board

1772
01:11:08,570 --> 01:11:06,260
um

1773
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:08,580
do you have anything coming as far as

1774
01:11:13,130 --> 01:11:09,600
that you're publishing or anything

1775
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:13,140
coming up um that you want to or or um

1776
01:11:18,350 --> 01:11:16,320
recommend here before we sign off

1777
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:18,360
oh could you say that again Dina once

1778
01:11:20,930 --> 01:11:19,920
again I dropped off here on my end oh is

1779
01:11:23,209 --> 01:11:20,940
there anything that you're working on

1780
01:11:24,649 --> 01:11:23,219
any type of um appearances or anything

1781
01:11:25,910 --> 01:11:24,659
that you've got coming up that you want

1782
01:11:28,250 --> 01:11:25,920
to uh

1783
01:11:29,810 --> 01:11:28,260
um no no I can't say that there are this

1784
01:11:31,130 --> 01:11:29,820
this is you know we have our board

1785
01:11:32,810 --> 01:11:31,140
meeting here in the next few days and

1786
01:11:35,209 --> 01:11:32,820
will be interesting to see how that goes

1787
01:11:37,250 --> 01:11:35,219
and my wife runs the Virginia mufan and

1788
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:37,260
I know she has a uh a little conference

1789
01:11:41,689 --> 01:11:39,120
coming up in this in the Virginia area

1790
01:11:43,130 --> 01:11:41,699
here in March I think it is that uh she

1791
01:11:45,050 --> 01:11:43,140
always asked me to say a few words there

1792
01:11:51,490 --> 01:11:45,060
so I probably will so that's that's

1793
01:11:55,850 --> 01:11:53,930
UFO meeting monthly meeting

1794
01:11:57,770 --> 01:11:55,860
okay great

1795
01:12:00,470 --> 01:11:57,780
um all right well Rob thank you so much

1796
01:12:03,890 --> 01:12:00,480
again for for being on the show thank

1797
01:12:06,830 --> 01:12:03,900
you I want to um

1798
01:12:08,270 --> 01:12:06,840
um mention that tomorrow's or next

1799
01:12:10,250 --> 01:12:08,280
week's uh show is going to be a

1800
01:12:12,290 --> 01:12:10,260
pre-recorded show it's going to be a

1801
01:12:15,050 --> 01:12:12,300
fascinated conversation

1802
01:12:16,669 --> 01:12:15,060
um with Martin and his guest which is uh

1803
01:12:18,490 --> 01:12:16,679
I'm going to butcher these names so

1804
01:12:23,510 --> 01:12:18,500
enjoy the butchering here it comes

1805
01:12:26,330 --> 01:12:23,520
jencine Andresen and Drazen and Massimo

1806
01:12:31,850 --> 01:12:26,340
that's a Italian name so I'm going with

1807
01:12:33,070 --> 01:12:31,860
that uh last name is Tio Duran Duran on

1808
01:12:35,990 --> 01:12:33,080
their recently released book

1809
01:12:39,050 --> 01:12:36,000
extraterrestrial intelligence academic

1810
01:12:40,490 --> 01:12:39,060
and societal implications sounds really

1811
01:12:43,490 --> 01:12:40,500
interesting

1812
01:12:46,630 --> 01:12:43,500
um this is uh Dean aliero signing off I

1813
01:12:50,030 --> 01:12:46,640
do want to let you guys know that um

1814
01:12:53,450 --> 01:12:50,040
uh with the encouragement of Martin and

1815
01:12:54,770 --> 01:12:53,460
several of of you guys out there

1816
01:12:56,330 --> 01:12:54,780
um something that I've been thinking

1817
01:12:58,669 --> 01:12:56,340
about doing for a very long time I'm

1818
01:13:00,709 --> 01:12:58,679
finally doing which I am getting ready

1819
01:13:02,450 --> 01:13:00,719
to do yes

1820
01:13:05,630 --> 01:13:02,460
a podcast

1821
01:13:09,530 --> 01:13:05,640
so it'll be a unique take on this with

1822
01:13:12,050 --> 01:13:09,540
some levity and uh some humor but um we

1823
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:12,060
will be bringing not just um experts and

1824
01:13:18,169 --> 01:13:13,440
stuff but also

1825
01:13:20,570 --> 01:13:18,179
um UFO folks and um and uh and the such

1826
01:13:24,590 --> 01:13:20,580
so thank you again uh for everyone's

1827
01:13:26,630 --> 01:13:24,600
support and don't uh forget that patreon

1828
01:13:29,930 --> 01:13:26,640
is a great way to say you appreciate

1829
01:13:32,570 --> 01:13:29,940
Martin's show so uh Martin be safe on

1830
01:13:33,950 --> 01:13:32,580
the road and um we will see you next

1831
01:13:35,990 --> 01:13:33,960
week guys

1832
01:13:45,310 --> 01:13:36,000
foreign